[Lingtyp] "I hide my stone in my house"

[Florian Siegl]

Well, the reflexive Finnish example is to some degree ambiguous,
because the illative marked goal could also be governed by the
reflexive -u derivation, a pattern which is almost default in standard
Finnish; e.g., osallistu-a kokoukse-en <participate-inf meeting-ill>
‘to participate in a meeting’. The transitive case is ok, but the
intransitive allows at least two interpretations.
The fact that Finnish can mark states as movement is usually mentioned
with jäädä ‘to stay’ so transitive piilottaa ‘to hide’ + illative is
somehow already motivated language internally:
Hän 	on 		Lontoo-ssa.3sg	be.3sg	London-iness‘S/he is in
London.’ (inessive case)
Hän 	jää		Lontoo-seen3sg	stay.3sg	London-ill‘S/he 
stays in London.’ (illative)
And a side note, there is multifunctional case. In Dolgan (Turkic,
Northern Siberia) one would get dative case in both instances:
min 	hurug-u 	d'ahaak 	ih-iger 		kistee-
bit-im1sg	letter-acc	box		inside-px3.dat	hide-
pst.res.1sg‘I hid the letter in(to) a box.’
taba 	talak-tar 	is-ter-i-ger 		kiste-m-mit, 		
	reindeer	bush-pl	inside-pl-px3-dat	hide-refl-
pst.res.3sg‘The reindeer hid itself in(side) the twigs of a bush...’
(from a popular fairytale)
The problem is that Dolgan (and some other Siberian Turkic languages)
use the dative case to encode both goal (whither) and location (where)…
Best, 
Florian Siegl

On Thu, 2018-10-11 at 14:24 +0300, Denys T. wrote:
> Hi Ian & Sebastian, 
> at least, in Finnish it would be the same Illative case for both.
> Here’s a random example from the internet:
> 
> (1) Piilouduin vessa-an
> hide.oneself.pst.1sg toilet-ill
> ‘I’ve hidden in the toilet’ (vauva.fi)
> 
> Best, 
> Denys 
> 
> > On 11 Oct 2018, at 14:19, Sebastian Nordhoff <
> > sebastian.nordhoff at glottotopia.de> wrote:
> > Hi Ian,
> > this might even become clearer with transitive and intransitive
> > 'hide'.
> > What about
> > 
> > (1) My sister hides in the garden
> > (2) I hide my sister in the garden
> > 
> > How would this work in Finnish-style languages? (Obviously,
> > reflexives
> > can complicate the picture)
> > 
> > Best
> > Sebastian
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 10/11/2018 01:00 PM, Joo Ian wrote:
> > > Dear all,
> > > 
> > > I am interested in the following hypothesis:
> > > 
> > > In most of the world's languages, the PP "in my house" in
> > > sentence (1) and (2) are the same.
> > > 
> > > (1) My stone is in my house.
> > > (2) I hide my stone in my house.
> > > 
> > > For example, in German:
> > > 
> > > (1) Mein Stein ist "in meinem Haus".
> > > (2) Ich verstecke meinen Stein "in meinem Haus".
> > > 
> > > Although there are few languages where the PP of (1) and (2) are
> > > not identical, such as Finnish:
> > > 
> > > (1) Kiveni on "talossani". (Locative)
> > > (2) Piilotan kiveni "talooni". (Illative)
> > > 
> > > But cases like Finnish are far fewer than English-like cases, I
> > > think.
> > > 
> > > I think this is interesting because the PP of (1) and that of (2)
> > > are semantically different: the PP in (1) is a location whereas
> > > that in PP is the endpoint of a placement event. If I can show
> > > that the two PPs are morphologically identical in most of the
> > > world's languages, then I can suggest that placement event
> > > profiles a static location as its endpoint and not a dynamic
> > > goal, like Rohde has argued in her dissertation (
> > > https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/18015)
> > > 
> > > Although I find this issue interesting, I would like to know if
> > > others find it so as well. What do you think? (Also, I would
> > > appreciate if anyone can let me know any other Finnish-like
> > > cases)
> > > 
> > > From Hong Kong,
> > > Ian Joo
> > > http://ianjoo.academia.edu
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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