[Lingtyp] "I hide my stone in my house"

[Mike Morgan]

Russian also "follows" the "Finnish way" of doing things:
locative (prepositional) case for static: is located in a place
accusative case for dynamic: put something in a place

Sanskrit also

I am guessing that the languages of this type are not, in face few as Ian
suggests.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 6:42 PM Bakker, Dik <D.Bakker at uva.nl> wrote:

> I think that one should not ignore
> the semantics of the verb ('hide').
>
> Sebastian's English example (trans vs intrans) makes
> this very clear.
>
> So, it seems not to be a clear-cut case where
> a simple translation would render the answer
> with respect to possible case/adposition differences.
>
> Best,
>
> Dik
>
>
> dr. Dik Bakker
> Dept. of General Linguistics
> Universities of Amsterdam & Lancaster
> tel (+31) 35 544 75 78
>
> http://www.uva.nl/profiel/b/a/d.bakker/d.bakker.html
>
> Societas Linguistica Europaea
> Secretary
> http://www.societaslinguistica.eu/
> http://www.linguisticsociety.eu/ <http://www.societaslinguistica.eu/>
> ------------------------------
> *Van:* Lingtyp [lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org] namens Hannu
> Tommola [hannu.tommola at uta.fi]
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 11 oktober 2018 14:48
> *Aan:* Hartmut Haberland
> *CC:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [Lingtyp] "I hide my stone in my house"
>
> For a Finnish speaker this is the only plausible solution..;-) , besides,
> it seems still to be possible to use the German _verstecken_ in this way,
> too. See Duden Wörterbuch: Sie versteckte das Geld in ihrem Schreibtisch /
> (selten:) in ihren Schreibtisch.
>
> Best,
> Hannu
>
> Quoting Hartmut Haberland <hartmut at ruc.dk>:
>
> I am a German speaker and immediately I find the Finnish solution very
> plausible. After all, in German we also have
>
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> Der Stein liegt in der Schale. (Dative)
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> Ich legte den Stein in die Schale. (Accusative)
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> So German is actually Finnish-type, too, in part at least. The problem
> seems to be with German ‘verstecken,’ that is not seen as a movement verb.
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> Cf.
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> Ich verstecke den Stein hinter dem (not: hinter das) Haus.
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> There are other German verbs like that, e.g. anbringen, ablegen,
> abstellen, parken, archivieren, speichern, … that work the same.
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> Same with Danish *gemme* ‘verstecken, aufheben’:
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> Jeg gemmer maden (inde) i spisekammeret.
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> Now *inde* is not obligatory, actually a bit awkward, but possible. But
> it indicates place (where?), not direction (whither?), and the
> corresponding directional adverb (*ind*) would be impossible here.
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> With verbs like *legen, stellen, setzen, sich setzen* German is like
> Finnish. But they seem to be in the minority.
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> Never thought of it –
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> Wir parkten das Auto im Hof (We parked the car in the backyard), not
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> *Wir parkten das Auto in den Hof (*into the backyard)
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> Besides
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> Wir stellten das Auto im Hof ab (roughly same meaning, but more like
> ‚because it was in the way’)
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> I would marginally accept
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> Wir stellten das Auto in den Hof ab
>
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> though.
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> *Hartmut Haberland*
> Professor emeritus
>
>
>
> [image: RUC]
>
> *Roskilde University*
> Department of Communication and Arts
>
>
>
> Universitetsvej 1
> DK-4000 Roskilde
> Telephone: +45 46742841
>
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> *Fra:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> *På vegne af*
> Joo Ian
> *Sendt:* 11. oktober 2018 13:01
> *Til:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Emne:* [Lingtyp] "I hide my stone in my house"
>
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> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I am interested in the following hypothesis:
>
>
>
> In most of the world's languages, the PP "in my house" in sentence (1) and
> (2) are the same.
>
>
>
> (1) My stone is in my house.
>
>
>
> (2) I hide my stone in my house.
>
>
>
> For example, in German:
>
>
>
> (1) Mein Stein ist "in meinem Haus".
>
>
>
> (2) Ich verstecke meinen Stein "in meinem Haus".
>
>
>
> Although there are few languages where the PP of (1) and (2) are not
> identical, such as Finnish:
>
>
>
> (1) Kiveni on "talossani". (Locative)
>
>
>
> (2) Piilotan kiveni "talooni". (Illative)
>
>
>
> But cases like Finnish are far fewer than English-like cases, I think.
>
>
>
> I think this is interesting because the PP of (1) and that of (2) are
> semantically different: the PP in (1) is a location whereas that in PP is
> the endpoint of a placement event. If I can show that the two PPs are
> morphologically identical in most of the world's languages, then I can
> suggest that placement event profiles a static location as its endpoint and
> not a dynamic goal, like Rohde has argued in her dissertation (
> https://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/18015)
>
>
>
> Although I find this issue interesting, I would like to know if others
> find it so as well. What do you think? (Also, I would appreciate if anyone
> can let me know any other Finnish-like cases)
>
>
>
> From Hong Kong,
>
>
>
> Ian Joo
>
>
>
> http://ianjoo.academia.edu
>
>
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>
>
> Hannu Tommola
> Professor emer. of Russian Language (Translation Theory and Practice)
> School of Language, Translation and Literary Studies
> FIN-33014 University of Tampere, Finland
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>


-- 
Dr Michael W Morgan
mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || માઈક || মাঈক || மாஈக ||  مایک ||мика ||
戊流岸マイク
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist / Deaf education consultant
"Have language, will travel"
=====================================
"People who are always looking down at the bottom line will always fail to
see the stars"
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