[Lingtyp] 'Take' as diachronic source for causative? 'Stand' for ingressive?
isabelle.bril at cnrs.fr
Wed Aug 26 09:59:20 UTC 2020
you can have a look at Françoise Rivierre's paper The evolution of the
verb "take" in New Caledonian languages/,/
in Isabelle Bril & Françoise Ozanne-Rivierre Editors. 2004./Complex
Predicates in Oceanic Languages./Berlin New York: Mouton de Gruyter,
Empirical Approaches to Language Typology 29, 398 p. ISBN 3-11-018188-6.
Le 20/08/2020 à 14:21, Claudia Wegener a écrit :
> Hi Daniel,
> thanks, yes, I am aware of those functions of 'take' SVCs (also
> discussed in Lee (2019), which I'm sure you will know) and Lefebvre's
> work. 'Take' to Inceptive was not so much my interest, but thanks for
> the interesting slides!
> The language I'm working on (Savosavo, Non-Austronesian) does use
> transitive 'take' in SVCs as the general marker for causation. The
> subject of 'take' is the causer, and object of 'take' is subject of
> the (necessarily intransitive) verb that follows. It is never used in
> any intransitive form or in any way altered in morphology or phonetic
> form. I agree that the development has to have followed a path from
> what you said below ("The more common pattern seems to me to be 'Take
> NP (and) V (it)', so not causative in terms of alignment but similar
> in function. I'm not sure about whether or how often that pattern
> might shift alignment to 'Make NP V'."), i.e. in symmetrical,
> sequential serial verb constructions first, and then extended to
> asymmetrical SVCs, with the shifted alignment pattern. I do find it a
> bit puzzling that it seems to have happened so rarely in other
> languages, even though it seems a perfectly intuitive development to
> me :)
> Also in light of the other answers I received so far, I guess it is
> quite safe to say then that this development is rather rare...
> As for my question about 'stand' -> inchoative/inceptive/ingressive, I
> did mean 'stand' in the sense of 'be standing'; Savosavo does have a
> separate (though related) word for 'stand/get up', which is not used
> for this grammatical function.
> Thanks again, best wishes,
> Lee, Taegyeong. 2019. A cross-linguistic typology of ‘take’ serial
> verb constructions. Albuquerque, New Mexico: University of New Mexico
> MA thesis. https://digitalrepository.unm.edu/ling_etds/69.
> On 20-Aug-20 01:38, Daniel Ross wrote:
>> Hi Claudia,
>> TAKE is extremely common in transitive functions in serial verb
>> constructions, with a range of meanings including instrumental,
>> comitative and sometimes just accusative. There's no shortage of
>> literature on the topic (including several more papers by Lefebvre),
>> but for a preliminary large-scale survey, see:
>> However, TAKE is rarer as an intransitive auxiliary with inceptive
>> (or similar) semantics. One specific regional exception is "TAKE AND
>> V" pseudocoordination as found in dozens of European languages. The
>> meaning is similar to "GO AND V", in the sense of surprise,
>> unexpectedness, defiance, self-initiative, etc. This has been written
>> about by a number of authors, but I am working on a more
>> comprehensive survey in Eurasia, where I've so far identified this
>> usage in about 60 languages:
>> (Slides in Spanish, but should be easy enough to follow with the maps.)
>> Aside from pseudocoordination (or rare asyndetic variants) within
>> that geographic area, SVCs (etc.) with "take" are quite rare in that
>> intransitive sense. Something like that is found in Haitian Creole,
>> and there's an auxiliary in Arabic that is similar, but in general
>> this particular semantic configuration seems anomalously common in
>> Europe (suggesting contact effects, but with unclear and possibly
>> many pathways, as discussed in the slides). Another related usage is
>> auto-benefactive "take" (as opposed to "give"), as described by
>> Creissels 2010 for example (cited in the slides).
>> The meanings I've described above are not causative exactly, but I
>> think somewhat semantically related to that might give you more
>> information to consider. Further grammaticalization into marking a
>> causative seems plausible from TAKE SVCs, for example. The more
>> common pattern seems to me to be "Take NP (and) V (it)", so not
>> causative in terms of alignment but similar in function. I'm not sure
>> about whether or how often that pattern might shift alignment to
>> "Make NP V".
>> STAND/GET UP is used similarly to the TAKE (AND) construction above,
>> in Arabic and some other languages of the Middle East (presumably
>> also due to contact), sort of blending into the edges of the TAKE AND
>> distribution. For Arabic, search for research on "qam" (and cognates
>> in different varieties), often grammaticalized as an ingressive
>> particle in colloquial varieties.
>> I'd be happy to discuss this topic more, but that addresses at least
>> the specific questions asked. I'd be interested to hear more about
>> your research on these topics. I can supply additional references if
>> you'd like. (Feel free to write off-list if you prefer.)
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 4:03 PM Claudia Wegener
>> <claudia.wegener at uni-koeln.de <mailto:claudia.wegener at uni-koeln.de>>
>> Dear all,
>> It was suggested to me that grammaticalization of the verb 'take'
>> to a causative marker is typologically unusual, and indeed, apart
>> from the mention of Twi and Nupe (in Kuteva et al. 2019 and
>> sources cited therein) and Fon (Lefebvre 1991) I have found
>> little to no information on languages where this has happened...
>> Would any of you know any other languages and could point me
>> towards publications I could cite?
>> And related to this, I have been even less successful at finding
>> languages where the verb for 'to stand' (as posture verb) has
>> been grammaticalized to function as a marker for ingressive - if
>> you know of any, would you be so kind to point me to any
>> Many thanks in advance,
>> Lefebvre, Claire. 1991. /Take/ serial verb constructions in Fon.
>> In Claire Lefebvre (ed.), /Serial Verbs: Grammatical,
>> Comparative/ /and Cognitive Approaches/, 37-78. Amsterdam,
>> Philadelphia: Benjamins.
>> Kuteva, Tania, Bernd Heine, Bo Hong, Haiping Long, Heiko Narrog &
>> Seongha Rhee (eds.). 2019. /World Lexicon of Grammaticalization/,
>> 2nd edition. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
>> Claudia Wegener
>> Abteilung Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
>> Institut für Linguistik
>> Universität zu Köln
>> 50923 Köln
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Claudia Wegener
> Abteilung Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
> Institut für Linguistik
> Universität zu Köln
> 50923 Köln
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
Directeur de recherches (LACITO-CNRS)
Directeur d'Etudes à l'EPHE (Typologie et Typologie des langues austronésiennes)
Ecole de typologie ESSLT 2016
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