[Lingtyp] query: how do ludlings apply to ideophones?

[Tim Zingler]

Hi,

just a brief follow-up/correction to my earlier email. With respect to Khwe, Kilian-Hatz (2008: 21) distinguishes between free vowel-initial grammatical morphemes, which are usually preceded by a glottal stop, and vowel-initial suffixes, which are not. This analysis seems to be based on the same overall reasoning even though one could of course question it (e.g., to what extent are the free morphemes really vowel-initial?).

Kilian-Hatz, Christa. 2008. A grammar of Modern Khwe (Central Khoisan). Cologne: Rüdiger Köppe.

Best,

Tim
________________________________
From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Hiroto Uchihara <uchihara at buffalo.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:22 AM
To: David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] query: how do ludlings apply to ideophones?


  [EXTERNAL]

Dear David,

In Japanese "babi-go", which inserts a syllable -bV after each mora, this -bV apply this to ideophones too (as well as to final particles), as in (2), at least for me:

(1) mógumogu-to tabé-másh-ita=ká
     IDEO-CITA eat-POLIT-PAST=Q
     'Did (you) munch on it?'

(2) mobógúbúmóbúgubu-tobo tababébémábáshibitaba=kábá

Maybe the Japanese babi-go is based more on orthography, at least in my case; I wonder how illiterate speakers would react.

Best regards,
Hiroto


El jue., 27 de ago. de 2020 a la(s) 12:00, David Gil (gil at shh.mpg.de<mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>) escribió:

Dear all,


Does anybody have any data on whether and how ludlings apply to ideophones?



(Terminology: Ludlings, also known as language games, or secret languages, are specialized speech styles in which you do things like insert a [b] in every syllable, or reverse the order of syllables in a word.  Ideophones are forms that appear to stand apart from the regular grammatical  rules and constraints of the language, both phonologically and in terms of their meanings which often contain an affective component; although most renowned from languages of West Africa and Mainland Southeast Asia, they are found in most or all languages.)



My prediction, which I would like to test, is that ideophones will be opaque to ludlings, that is to say, when applying to an utterance containing an ideophone, the ludling will "skip over" the ideophone and not apply to it.  But of course I could be wrong ...



Elsewhere I have observed that in languages with (typically sentence-final) pragmatic particles, such particles are opaque to ludlings, and I used this to argue that such particles lie on a separate and largely suprasegmental tier to which the ludling does not apply.  I would like to explore whether a similar argument might also be applicable to ideophones — hence this query.


Thanks,


David

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David Gil

Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
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Email: gil at shh.mpg.de<mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
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Dr. Hiroto Uchihara
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Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas
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