[Lingtyp] Numeral 'one' and 'as soon as'

[MM Jocelyne Fernandez]

As I remarked above, the French "une fois (que)" is not the equivalent 
of "dès que" (/as soon as)/: it has a temporal meaning that emphasizes 
the relation of succession between two actions, but implies neither 
immediacy nor cause, rather a sense of completeness of the (temporally 
but not syntactically) first action.

     - Tu m'appelles une fois (que tu seras) rentré!

         "(You'll) call me once you're home!"

     ≠ - Tu m'appelles dès que tu seras rentré!"

Maybe the same connotations can be found in the Russian construction?

     MMJocelyne Fernandez-Vest


Le 01/04/2021 à 09:39, Michael Daniel a écrit :
> Dear all,
>
> only in this exchange I realized that the Russian /раз/ 'time' (in the 
> sense of the French 'fois'), is used in a syntactically similar 
> construction but functionally different construction as introducing 
> cause complement clauses:
>
> /Раз ты пришел так рано, я пойду/.
> As you came so early, I'll be leaving. (Lit. 'Time you.sg 
> <http://you.sg> come.Pst so early, I leave.Prs)
>
> Note that no numeral is used in these constructions, unlike what the 
> original query was looking for.
>
> But is the French "Une fois que" not somewhat similar to Russian in 
> this respect, in that it is not (only) used in the sense "as soon as" 
> but also to introduce subordinate clauses of cause? (And maybe 
> English, too, once we're on this). In fact, it would be good to check 
> whether the Russian construction is not a 19th century pattern copy 
> from French.
>
> Michael
>
> чт, 1 апр. 2021 г. в 08:33, Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez 
> <olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu <mailto:olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu>>:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     Sorry for not having been clearer in my previous email.
>
>     Yes, English 'once' is used in this way :)
>
>     I did not mention English and other European languages  because in
>     Mandarin and the other Hmong-Mien languages I mentioned before,
>     the second clause appears with another linker (lit.
>     /on(c)e/........'(/and/) /then/').  Accordingly, these languages
>     show some sort of correlative construction. Based on the languages
>     of the sample, this usage of 'on(c)e' in a correlative
>     construction is not common cross-linguistically. It seems that
>     Hmong-Mien languages have copied this strategy with native
>     material from Mandarin. This is some sort of 'pattern
>     replication'. I was expecting to receive more answers concerned
>     with languages spoken in this area in order to see if these
>     languages have also copied this pattern from Mandarin.
>
>     Thank you in advance.
>
>     Best,
>
>     On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:37 PM Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez
>     <olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu <mailto:olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu>> wrote:
>
>         Dear all,
>
>         I hope this message finds you well.
>
>         As I was consulting various sources, it seems that the numeral
>         'one' in the expression of 'as soon as' is not common
>         cross-linguistically.
>
>         In my sample, this is attested in Standard Mandarin (i.e.
>         /yī), /Xong (Hmong-Mien), and Iu Mien (Hmong-Mien). Are you
>         aware of any other languages that express 'as soon as' in a
>         similar way?
>
>         Thank you very much in advance.
>
>         Best,
>
>         -- 
>         Jesús Olguín Martínez
>         Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>         /University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)/
>         http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
>         <http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Jesús Olguín Martínez
>     Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>     /University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)/
>     http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
>     <http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Lingtyp mailing list
>     Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>     <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>     http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>     <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
-- 
Prof. M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST
CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20210402/465ed3dc/attachment.htm>