[Lingtyp] Numeral 'one' and 'as soon as'

Fri Apr 2 08:37:03 UTC 2021

The same as French *une fois que,* It.* una volta che *underlines the
temporal succession of two events: *una volta che avrai finito il libro mi
dirai cosa ne pensi "*once you'll finish reading the book  you'll tell me
how you feel about it". This does not imply an immediate reaction and u*na
volta* *che *is more or less equivalent to *quando: Quando avrai finito *etc
*. *Immediate reaction is expressed by *appena (che): appena (che) avrai
finito *etc*. = dès que tu *etc*.  (= as soon as you...). *At any rate,
both *una volta che *and *appena (che) *introduce a correlated
construction  as in the Hmong-Mien languages.

Best,
Paolo

prof. dr. Paolo Ramat
 Università di Pavia (retired)
Istituto Universitario Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)
Accademia dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente
'Academia Europaea'
'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member
piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia
##39 0382 27027
347 044 98 44

Il giorno ven 2 apr 2021 alle ore 07:05 MM Jocelyne Fernandez <
mmjocelynefern at gmail.com> ha scritto:

> As I remarked above, the French "une fois (que)" is not the equivalent of
> "dès que" (*as soon as)*: it has a temporal meaning that emphasizes the
> relation of succession between two actions, but implies neither immediacy
> nor cause, rather a sense of completeness of the (temporally but not
> syntactically) first action.
>
>     - Tu m'appelles une fois (que tu seras) rentré!
>
>         "(You'll) call me once you're home!"
>
>     ≠ - Tu m'appelles dès que tu seras rentré!"
>
> Maybe the same connotations can be found in the Russian construction?
>
>     MMJocelyne Fernandez-Vest
>
>
> Le 01/04/2021 à 09:39, Michael Daniel a écrit :
>
> Dear all,
>
> only in this exchange I realized that the Russian *раз* 'time' (in the
> sense of the French 'fois'), is used in a syntactically similar
> construction but functionally different construction as introducing cause
> complement clauses:
>
> *Раз ты пришел так рано, я пойду*.
> As you came so early, I'll be leaving. (Lit. 'Time you.sg come.Pst so
> early, I leave.Prs)
>
> Note that no numeral is used in these constructions, unlike what the
> original query was looking for.
>
> But is the French "Une fois que" not somewhat similar to Russian in this
> respect, in that it is not (only) used in the sense "as soon as" but also
> to introduce subordinate clauses of cause? (And maybe English, too, once
> we're on this). In fact, it would be good to check whether the Russian
> construction is not a 19th century pattern copy from French.
>
> Michael
>
> чт, 1 апр. 2021 г. в 08:33, Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <
> olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Sorry for not having been clearer in my previous email.
>>
>> Yes, English 'once' is used in this way :)
>>
>> I did not mention English and other European languages  because in
>> Mandarin and the other Hmong-Mien languages I mentioned before, the second
>> clause appears with another linker (lit. *on(c)e*........'(*and*) *then*').
>> Accordingly, these languages show some sort of correlative construction.
>> Based on the languages of the sample, this usage of 'on(c)e' in a
>> correlative construction is not common cross-linguistically. It seems that
>> Hmong-Mien languages have copied this strategy with native material from
>> Mandarin. This is some sort of 'pattern replication'. I was expecting to
>> receive more answers concerned with languages spoken in this area in
>> order to see if these languages have also copied this pattern from Mandarin.
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:37 PM Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <
>> olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I hope this message finds you well.
>>>
>>> As I was consulting various sources, it seems that the numeral 'one' in
>>> the expression of 'as soon as' is not common cross-linguistically.
>>>
>>> In my sample, this is attested in Standard Mandarin (i.e. *yī), *Xong
>>> (Hmong-Mien), and Iu Mien (Hmong-Mien). Are you aware of any other
>>> languages that express 'as soon as' in a similar way?
>>>
>>> Thank you very much in advance.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jesús Olguín Martínez
>>> Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>>> *University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)*
>>> http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jesús Olguín Martínez
>> Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>> *University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)*
>> http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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> --
> Prof. M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST
> CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle
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