[Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification

David Gil gil at shh.mpg.de
Sun Apr 11 23:44:02 UTC 2021


Jess,

The construction you cite is a different construction:  it's an elision, 
to be sure, but it's an elision of a comparative, and does not have an 
intensification function: it means 'He's as good as my son', not 'He's 
very good'.

And its distribution is different: in my own English, for example, what 
Mrs. Wheasley says is fine, whereas /sweet as/ is word salad.  (Though 
having just spent an hour or so watching those delightful "Beached As" 
videos that Naomi Peck provided the link to, I am tempted to start using 
the construction!)

David


On 12/04/2021 02:17, Jess Tauber wrote:
> I remember an 'as good as' in one of the Harry Potter films (I think 
> it was the Order of the Phoenix?). This is where Mrs. Wheasley says of 
> Harry 'He's as good as' with reference to him not being her actual son.
>
> Jess Tauber
>
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 6:36 PM David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de 
> <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to
>     me personally or on the list.
>
>     I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
>     "incomplete".  I am using these terms grammatically /
>     semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
>     missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
>     Malay /sampe/ and (Australian) English /as/ usually occur in
>     construction with another, following expression (or "complement").
>
>     I was not implying that the construction in question should "sound
>     incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's interesting
>     that she characterizes the Australian English /as/ construction as
>     being associated with a "particular intonation", since the same is
>     true also for the Papuan Malay construction with /sampe/.  Though
>     the specifics of the intonation contour seem to differ (in Papuan
>     Malay, the peak of the contour falls on the preceding word, while
>     the intensifier /sampe/ is associated with low pitch, sounding
>     like an afterthought).
>
>     David
>
>
>     On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>>     I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it
>>     on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
>>     somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There is
>>     a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the
>>     ‘as’ is lengthened  and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t
>>     sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a
>>     better idea of the prosody than me).
>>
>>     Ilana
>>
>>     Associate Professor Ilana Mushin
>>
>>     Reader in Linguistics
>>
>>     President, Australian Linguistic Society
>>
>>     /var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.pngCo-Editor,
>>     /Interactional Linguistics/ (https://benjamins.com/catalog/il
>>     <https://benjamins.com/catalog/il>)
>>
>>     School of Languages and Cultures
>>
>>     University of Queensland
>>
>>     St Lucia, QLD 4072.
>>
>>     Ph: (07) 3365 6810 <tel:(07)%203365%206810>
>>
>>     CRICOS Provider No: 00025B
>>
>>     *I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I
>>     live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.*
>>
>>
>>>     On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>     <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>     
>>>
>>>     Dear all,
>>>
>>>
>>>     I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical
>>>     distribution of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type
>>>     which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.I'll explain with
>>>     an example.In Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other
>>>     words may be intensified by the addition of /sampe/, a word
>>>     whose other, more basic functions, include 'arrive' and 'until',
>>>     e.g.
>>>
>>>     (1) Enak sampe
>>>
>>>     nice SAMPE
>>>
>>>     'Very nice.'
>>>
>>>     My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it
>>>     involves, or at least originated in, some kind of understood
>>>     expression such as "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or
>>>     "nice until (completion)".As Papuan Malay is largely
>>>     head-initial, it kind of feels like something is missing after
>>>     the word /sampe/.(In Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems
>>>     to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea
>>>     and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>>
>>>     So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
>>>     Intensification.The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian
>>>     language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest
>>>     coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also
>>>     spoken.As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), /aya/
>>>     'until' is used in a construction closely resembling that in (1):
>>>
>>>     (2) Anlómo aya
>>>
>>>     bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>>
>>>     ‘It bled a lot.’
>>>
>>>     Arnold, Laura. 2018./A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian
>>>     Language of West New Guinea/. PhD Dissertation.Edinburgh:
>>>     University of Edinburgh.
>>>
>>>     The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted
>>>     this query, is Australian English.In the Wikipedia entry for
>>>     Australian English, in a paragraph which deals with the
>>>     infensification of adjectives, the following rather tantalizing
>>>     passage occurs:
>>>
>>>     "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used,
>>>     such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>>
>>>     So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that
>>>     comes after the word being intensified, but still, all these
>>>     cases seem to involve intensification with the elision of some
>>>     kind of argument associated with the property word and denoting
>>>     an extreme extent of the property in question.
>>>
>>>     My questions:
>>>
>>>     1.Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the
>>>     existence of this construction, and comment on it.Does it occur
>>>     in other varieties of English?(It was certainly completely new
>>>     to me!)
>>>
>>>     2.Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
>>>     Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or
>>>     elsewhere?On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks like
>>>     an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this the case?For
>>>     the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate negative
>>>     data, of the form "no, my language definitely doesn't do this".
>>>
>>>     3.Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>
>>>     David
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     David Gil
>>>       
>>>     Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>     Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>     Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>     Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>       
>>>     Email:gil at shh.mpg.de  <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>     Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>     Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>     _______________________________________________
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>
>     -- 
>     David Gil
>       
>     Senior Scientist (Associate)
>     Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>     Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>     Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>       
>     Email:gil at shh.mpg.de  <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>     Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>     Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>     http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>     <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>
-- 
David Gil
  
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
  
Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091

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