[Lingtyp] New name for "Mainland Northeast Asia"

Mon Jan 4 09:24:44 UTC 2021

Thanks, Johanna. Indeed, I think that Manchuria is a perfectly valid term, when defined geographically. Manchukuo was a political concept and covered only a part of historical and geographical Manchuria. In my terminology Greater Manchuria, geographically understood, comprises both the continental part of the region (basically, the Liao and Sungari-Amur basins, including the sources of the Amur in eastern Mongolia) and its insular and peninsular extensions (Korea, Japan, Sakhalin). 
The term "Northeast Asia" is problematic since it is taken from economic geography and tends to omit the Russian possessions at the Pacific which are, geographically speaking, Northeast Asia par excellence. Also, "Northeast" (Dongbei 東北) is today a politically biased concept which the Chinese government uses for the parts of Manchuria it controls in order to falsify history, making it look as if Manchuria was a part of historical "China", which it is not. 
Basically, Manchuria and Mongolia are separate entities, just like China, and it appears difficult to coin a term that would cover them as a single entity. In prewar times, but mainly for reasons of political convenience, the Japanese used the term Manmou (滿蒙) 'Manchuria-Mongolia', but it did not include Korea (Chousen 朝鮮). I  do not see any good alternative to "Greater Manchuria" if you want to define a region that would comprise both continental Manchuria, (parts of) Mongolia, and Korea, but exclude Siberia (proper) and, if you so wish, Japan. - jj  
Prof. emer. Dr. J. A. Janhunen Linguae et Culturae Asiae Maioris Языки и культуры Восточной Азии
赫爾辛基大學東亞語言文化名譽教授中國內蒙古大學名譽教授  

Начало переадресованного сообщения:

От: "Bohnemeyer, Juergen" <jb77 at buffalo.edu>
Дата: 4 января 2021 г. в 00:45:17 GMT+2
Кому: Johanna Nichols <johanna at berkeley.edu>
Копия: LINGTYP <LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Тема: Ответ: [Lingtyp] New name for "Mainland Northeast Asia"

“Manchuria” strikes me politically/historically fraught due to its association with Manchukuo. But, I’m about as far from being an expert on this region as a typologist can be, so what do I know! — Best — Juergen

On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Johanna Nichols <johanna at berkeley.edu> wrote:

Janhunen 1996 uses the term Manchuria for this area and covers its ethnohistory and linguistic history so comprehensively that I consider it a precedent for using that term.

Janhunen, Juha. Manchuria: An ethnic history. Helsinki: Suomalais-Ugrilainen Seura, 1996.

Johanna

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 12:11 PM Dan I. SLOBIN <slobin at berkeley.edu> wrote:

"Inner" and "outer" convey an implicit hierarchy: some are in and some are out; some are central and some are peripheral.

I suggest a simple, objective solution, avoiding the repetition of names of compass directions, and avoiding what may

be seen as value judgments: Boreal Northeast Asia and Austral Southeast Asia -- i.e., North and South, using Latin terms.

I don't think these terms are opaque: "Boreal" will, for some people, evoke "Aurora Borealis," the Northern Lights;

"Austral" will evoke southerly geography, as in Austronesia and Australia.

Dan Slobin

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:28 AM JOO, Ian [Student] <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk> wrote:

Dear all,

(I’m sorry if no one cares, but just for the update)

Although no one suggested any alternatives, I gave it a thought and changed the terms “Mainland Northeast Asia” to “Inner Northeast Asia” (as opposed to “Outer Northeast Asia”, i. e. the rest of Northeast Asia).

Below is a visualized map of Inner and Outher Northeast Asia.

<Attachment.tiff>

>From Hong Kong,

Ian

On 31 Dec 2020, 6:13 PM +0800, JOO, Ian [Student] <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk>, wrote:

Dear all,

In my doctoral research, I refer to the lingistic area consisting of Korea, Mongolia, and Northeast China (but not Japan or Russian Far East) as "Mainland Northeast Asia."

But this name is problematic, since Siberia is just as continental (part of "mainland") as well, and I don't intend to include Siberia.

Because of this, I have been thinking of a better name for this area.

The best one I can think of is Astragalia, from the name of the herb astragalus, which is native to Korea, Northeast China, Mongolia, and Southern Siberia.

The downside of this fancy name is that, upon hearing it, whoever not familiar with herbalism will have no idea where it points to, without further explanation.

Are there any other name candidates you can think of? If so, I would welcome all suggestions.

>From Hong Kong,

Ian

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