[Lingtyp] Before-constructions

[Paolo Ramat]

There are different types of time precedence (even if not expressed by '
*before*-constructions').
Consider : *As soon as Mary arrived, John left *(=immediate precedence,
often implying consequence)
*When John realized his idea was wrong, he gave it up *(the sentence does
not entail immediate consequence)
*After having composed his early symphonies, Mahler returned to Vienna in
1897 *(Mahler could have composed his early symphonies in 1887: the
'before' remains undefined)

Best,
Paolo

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Il giorno lun 19 lug 2021 alle ore 02:41 Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <
olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu> ha scritto:

> I should probably mention the following aspect.
>
> Consider the following constructions taken from Cristofaro (2003: 62):
>
> (1) a. Mozart died [before finishing his Requiem Mass]
> b. Mahler composed his early symphonies [before returning to Vienna in
> 1897]
> c. [Before going back to my book], I have to turn in this paper
>
> In (1a) the dependent situation (finishing the Requiem Mass) never takes
> place, while in (1b) the dependent situation (returning to Vienna) actually
> takes place after
> the main one. Finally, (1c) does not exclude the possibility that the
> dependent situation (going back to the book) may take place at some point
> in time (Cristofaro 2003: 62)
>
> English only has one clause-linking device to express the situations
> described above. However, other languages have specialized clause-linking
> devices that distinguish the situations shown in (1a-c).
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
> Best,
>
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 5:33 PM MM Jocelyne Fernandez <
> mmjocelynefern at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> John actually left because both verbs are simple action verbs in the past.
>>
>> But with for instance
>>
>> – John was anxious before leaving,
>>
>> the implication is not so evident any more.
>>
>> MMJocelyne Fernandez
>> Le 19/07/2021 à 01:46, David Gil a écrit :
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am I missing something here?  Consider
>>
>> (1) John ate before leaving
>> (2) John ate before he left
>>
>> Surely in both of the above sentences, there IS an implication that John
>> actually left.
>>
>> In terms of whether the two states of affairs take place, I don't see a
>> difference between the above and the following:
>>
>> (3) John ate and then left
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 19/07/2021 02:01, Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Temporal construction expressing precedence (a.k.a. *before*-constructions)
>> consist of a sequence of two clauses in which the main state of affairs
>> happens before the dependent state of affairs (Kortmann 1997: 84-85;
>> Cristofaro 2003: 159). The dependent state of affairs in a *before*-construction
>> may take place at a subsequent time point. However, there is no implication
>> about whether or not it actually takes place (Cristofaro 2003: 62).
>>
>> In my sample, there are various languages that use a specialized
>> clause-linkage device to explicitly indicate that the dependent state of
>> affairs in a *before*-construction actually takes place.
>>
>> I would be interested in hearing more about languages that have a
>> clause-linking device that explicitly indicate this type of information.
>>
>> Thank you very much in advance.
>>
>> Best,
>> --
>> Jesús Olguín Martínez
>> Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>> *University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)*
>> http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing listLingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.orghttp://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Senior Scientist (Associate)
>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
>> Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
>>
>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing listLingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.orghttp://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> --
>> Prof. M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>
>
> --
> Jesús Olguín Martínez
> Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
> *University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)*
> http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
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> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
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