[Lingtyp] Approximative numerals with emotive content

Tue Feb 22 16:26:42 UTC 2022

Dear all,

Modern colloquial Hebrew has a colourful way of referring to a year in 
the distant past, but explaining it requires substantial background 
information regarding the Hebrew calendar, orthography and the 
pronunciation of acronyms.

1. As we all know the universe was created 5782 years ago.However, dates 
in the Hebrew calendar are often referred to omitting the 5, so it's now 
782.

2. Hebrew dates are typically referred to using letters instead of 
numbers, in accordance with the system known as /gematria/ 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria).So for example, this year is 
written as תשפ״ב, which gets transliterated as TŠP"B, where T=400, 
Š=300, P=80 and B=2, adding up to 782.

3. An aside: Hebrew acronyms such as the above are conventionally 
written with a " between the penultimate and last letters — does anybody 
know where this convention comes from?(I haven't encountered it in any 
other language.)

4. Now for some phonology.Hebrew acronyms, /gematria/-based and 
otherwise, are typically pronounced in accordance with templatic 
morphology; some of the rules are described in 
http://www.outibatel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Bat-El-1994-acronyms.pdf.For 
example, TŠP"B is pronounced as [tašpab], or, to cite another important 
date in Israeli history, 1929, or 5229 in the Hebrew calendar, is 
written TRP"T and pronounced [tarpat].We're almost there ...

5. To express the meaning 'a very long time ago', there is the jocular 
form תרפפ״ו, or TRPP"W, pronounced [tarapapu], and usually occurring in 
the collocation [šnat tarapapu] 'the year tarapapu'.In terms of the 
rules of /gematria/ it is ill-formed, since it contains repeated 
occurrences of P.And with respect to the phonology of acronyms, it is 
also ill-formed, since acronym pronunciations are usually disyllabic, 
occasionally trisyllabic, but I don't think there are any attested cases 
of quadrisyllabic pronunciations.It just sounds really funny.

Thus, although its semantics is specific to the expression of time, 
Hebrew [šnat tarapapu] would seem to be similar to other approximative 
numeral expressions with emotive function that have been discussed in 
this thread.

David

On 22/02/2022 16:27, Amanda Kann wrote:
>
> Dear typologists,
>
> (Apologies to those who have already seen this query through 
> LinguistList!)
>
> I'm looking for corresponding expressions (in any language) to the 
> approximative numeral phrases in the examples below – conventionalized 
> numeral expressions which typically express larger, approximate 
> numeric quantities and encode some kind of emotive function.
> I'm interested in the composition and value of these numerals, as well 
> as their emphatic and emotive functions – if there are other 
> expressions in the numeral domain in your language(s) that carry a 
> similar illocutionary force, I would love to hear about them as well!
>
> Swedish [swe]: (from Bloggmix 2013, accessed through 
> http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp <http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp>)
> Det finns nämligen femtioelva sorters myror.
> 'There are actually many types of ants' (lit. 'There are actually 
> fifty-eleven types of ants')
>
> French [fra]: (Lavric 2010, https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008 
> <https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008>)
> Il n’y a pas trente-six façons de voir la chose.
> 'There aren't very many ways of seeing the thing' (lit. 'There aren't 
> thirty-six ways of seeing the thing')
>
> Danish [dan]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through 
> http://opus.nlpl.eu <http://opus.nlpl.eu/>)
> Han fortalte mig 117 gange, at han ikke gjorde hende noget.
> 'He told me a thousand times that he didn't do anything to her' (lit. 
> 'He told me 117 times that he didn't do anything to her')
>
> English [eng]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through 
> http://opus.nlpl.eu <http://opus.nlpl.eu/>)
> For the umpteenth time, we are not getting a dog.
>
> Thank you very much in advance for any tips, examples or comments!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Amanda Kann
>
> *____________________________________*
>
> *Amanda Kann*
>
> Institutionen för lingvistik | /Department of //Linguistics/
>
> *Stockholms universitet | /Stockholm University/*
> 106 91 Stockholm
>
>
> _amanda.kann at su.se_
> www.ling.su.se <http://www.ling.su.se/>
>
> Personuppgiftsbehandling vid Stockholms universitet 
> <https://www.su.se/om-webbplats-cookies/personuppgifter>
> *____________________________________*
>
>
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-- 
David Gil

Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany

Email:gil at shh.mpg.de
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
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