[Lingtyp] Approximative numerals with emotive content

Wed Feb 23 00:25:53 UTC 2022

Hi Amanda

Someone’s probably already pointed this out, but English also has ‘squillion’ and ‘gazillion’ for much larger indeterminate numbers than ‘umpteen’.

Bill

Associate Professor Bill Palmer
Lead Investigator, OzSpace project
Landscape, language and culture in Indigenous Australia.
Vice-President (Research Support), Australian Linguistics Society

bill.palmer at newcastle.edu.au<mailto:bill.palmer at newcastle.edu.au>
newcastle.edu.au/profile/Bill-Palmer<https://newcastle.edu.au/profile/firstname-lastname>
College of Human & Social Futures
The University of Newcastle
University Drive, Callaghan NSW 2308 Australia

From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> On Behalf Of Sebastian Nordhoff
Sent: Wednesday, 23 February 2022 3:16 AM
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Approximative numerals with emotive content

On 2/22/22 16:53, Bastian Persohn wrote:
> Dear Amanda,
>
> I’n not entirely sure if this is what you are looking for, but
> colloquial German has /drölf, /a blend of /drei/ ’three’ and
> /zwölf/ ’twelve’.
>
> It commonly means something like ‚any number between three and twelve‘
> but can also be used in the sense of ‚an unknown or unspecified large
> quantity‘.

To me, "drölf" has a clear value of '13', as it follows "elf" '11' and
"zwölf" '12'. The equivalent in pseudo-English would be 'threlve'.

For higher indeterminate numbers, you can use "drölfzig" 'threlvety' and
"drölfzigtausend" 'threlvety thousand'. As in English, the suffix "-zig"
'-ty' can only combine with single digit numbers, which adds to the
humourous effect (cf. "femtio-elva", where the "elva" part presumably
cannot be used in compounds either).

I feel that these numbers are not "approximative" though, but rather
"indeterminate". "femtioelva" does not mean ~50, "quarante-douze" does
not mean ~50, and 117 does not mean ~100, but rather "a somewhat (too)
large number where the speaker does not really have an idea of the
magnitude"

For approximative numbers, the Romance "centinaio", "centaine",
"centena" have been mentioned, but this seems to be different in the
sense that here the speaker actually commits to a certain (albeit fuzzy)
value.

Best wishes
Sebastian

Rather than emotive, it’s jocular, though. Wiktionary lists
> it as 'fiktive ganze Zahl‘ [fictive whole number]
> (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/dr%C3%B6lf<https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/dr%C3%B6lf>
> <https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/drölf<https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/drölf>>).
>
> Best,
> Bastian
>
>
>> Am 22.02.2022 um 15:27 schrieb Amanda Kann <amanda.kann at su.se
<mailto:amanda.kann at su.se%20%0b>>> <mailto:amanda.kann at su.se>>:
>>
>> Dear typologists,
>> (Apologies to those who have already seen this query through
>> LinguistList!)
>> I'm looking for corresponding expressions (in any language) to the
>> approximative numeral phrases in the examples below – conventionalized
>> numeral expressions which typically express larger, approximate
>> numeric quantities and encode some kind of emotive function.
>> I'm interested in the composition and value of these numerals, as well
>> as their emphatic and emotive functions – if there are other
>> expressions in the numeral domain in your language(s) that carry a
>> similar illocutionary force, I would love to hear about them as well!
>>
>> Swedish [swe]: (from Bloggmix 2013, accessed through
>> http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp<http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp> <http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp<http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp>>)
>> Det finns nämligen femtioelva sorters myror.
>> 'There are actually many types of ants' (lit. 'There are actually
>> fifty-eleven types of ants')
>>
>> French [fra]: (Lavric 2010,https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008<https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008>
>> <https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008<https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008>>)
>> Il n’y a pas trente-six façons de voir la chose.
>> 'There aren't very many ways of seeing the thing' (lit. 'There aren't
>> thirty-six ways of seeing the thing')
>>
>> Danish [dan]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through
>> http://opus.nlpl.eu<http://opus.nlpl.eu> <http://opus.nlpl.eu/<http://opus.nlpl.eu/>>)
>> Han fortalte mig 117 gange, at han ikke gjorde hende noget.
>> 'He told me a thousand times that he didn't do anything to her' (lit.
>> 'He told me 117 times that he didn't do anything to her')
>>
>> English [eng]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through
>> http://opus.nlpl.eu<http://opus.nlpl.eu> <http://opus.nlpl.eu/<http://opus.nlpl.eu/>>)
>> For the umpteenth time, we are not getting a dog.
>>
>> Thank you very much in advance for any tips, examples or comments!
>> Best regards,
>> Amanda Kann
>> *____________________________________*
>> *Amanda Kann*
>> Institutionen för lingvistik | /Department of //Linguistics/
>> *Stockholms universitet | /Stockholm University/*
>> 106 91 Stockholm
>>
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>> www.ling.su.se<http://www.ling.su.se> <http://www.ling.su.se/<http://www.ling.su.se>>
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