[Lingtyp] Lingtyp Digest, Vol 94, Issue 11

Sun Jul 10 17:15:42 UTC 2022

Hi, Jussi,

This system of very specific case/postpositional markers, including
'super', 'superlocative' cases as you call them is also attested in
Tupi-Guarani language (Tupian language family; South America). There is,
for instance, a contrast between *-pe* 'locative', *-**ßo *'diffuse
locative (spread over an area)', *-i* 'punctual locative (not spread, at a
precise point over a surface)', though the latter is usually restricted, as
a productive morpheme, to the most conservative languages in the family
only. Some languages like many Guaranian lects also add *-re*, used as a
'contact locative' as in the contrast:

*a-ju apy nde-yvy-pe*
1SG.A-come here 2SG.POSS-land-LOC
"I came here to your land" (and got inside it, as the locative *-pe* is
used)

vs.

*a-ju apy nde-yvy-re*
1SG-come here 2SG-land-LOC
"I came here to your land" (but didn't get inside it, as shown by the
"border" locative *-re*)

Finally, there are many 'transitional' systems out there where "relational"
or "locator" nouns are used in adposition, usually with default locative
markers, to express these additional shades of locational meaning - and
these are, I suppose, often the grammaticalization precursors for these
case markers. I've found many such cases in Arawakan languages (South
America), and Tupi-Guarani languages offer many examples too (as in
*-kupe-pe* 'at the rear part of an object', transparently related to the
noun *-kupe* 'backs').

I hope you find this relevant.

Best regards,

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 9:00 AM <lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org>
wrote:

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>    1. Re: "Super", "superlocative" or 'top' cases outside the
>       Caucasus and Uralic? (Jussi Ylikoski)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 18:13:21 +0000
> From: Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski at oulu.fi>
> To: "jpeterson at isfas.uni-kiel.de" <jpeterson at isfas.uni-kiel.de>, Jess
>         Tauber <tetrahedralpt at gmail.com>
> Cc: "LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org"
>         <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] "Super", "superlocative" or 'top' cases outside
>         the Caucasus and Uralic?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> HE1PR05MB32437D0655C851BFB1576B5889859 at HE1PR05MB3243.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear all,
>
>
> Many thanks to Jess Tauber and John Peterson for the information on Yahgan
> and Konkani, respectively, as well as to Daniel Ross who privately informed
> me about the seemingly cliticized postposition =t??? 'on' in Gexi Horpa
> (Sino-Tibetan). Especially the Konkani enclitic superessive case marker
> =r/=cer seems to be a good and well-documented representative of what I was
> looking for.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jussi
>
>
> ________________________________
> Fr?: John Peterson <jpeterson at isfas.uni-kiel.de>
> Sent: f?studagur, 8. j?l? 2022 15:00
> Til: Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski at oulu.fi>
> Afrit: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org <
> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Efni: Re: [Lingtyp] "Super", "superlocative" or 'top' cases outside the
> Caucasus and Uralic?
>
>
> Dear Jussi,
>
> Perhaps the Konkani (Southern Indo-Aryan) case system given in the table
> below would be of interest to you? Best, John
>
>
> Case
>
> Singular
>
> Plural
>
> Nominative (= direct stem)
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
>
> The following enclitic case markers attach to the oblique stem:
>
> Objective (? Accusative / Dative)
>
> =k
>
> =k
>
> Ergative / Instrumental
>
> =n
>
> =ni
>
> Inesseive (?in?)
>
> =nt (=n) (1)
>
> =ni
>
> Superessive (?on?)
>
> =r / =cer
>
> =r / =cer
>
> "Familiessive" (?at the home of?)
>
> =ger
>
> =ger
>
> Ablative
>
> =san / =sun
>
> =cyan / =lyan
>
> =san / =sun
>
> =cyan / =lyan
>
> Genitive (general)(2)
>
> =c-? / =c-i / =c-??
>
> =l-? / =l-i / =l-??
>
> =c-? / =c-i / =c-??
>
> =l-? / =l-i / =l-??
>
> ?Kinship genitive? (?belonging to the household of?)
>
> =g?l-? / =gel-i / =g?l-??
>
> =g?l-? / =gel-i / =g?l-??
>
> Vocative
>
> ?
>
> =no
>
> Notes:
> (1) While the standard form of the inessive singular is =nt, it is often
> realized as /n/ in both speech and writing, resulting in the total
> syncretism of the ergative/instrumental and the inessive cases in both
> singular and plural.
> (2) According to the traditional analysis, the genitive forms with <c>
> (realized as /?/ before high front vowels and as /?/ elsewhere) can be used
> with all types of nouns, whereas the /l/-forms are only used with nouns
> denoting personal names of human possessors, although there are also
> exceptions. This requires further study.
>
>
> Am 08.07.2022 01:08, schrieb Jussi Ylikoski:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> More than a year ago, in the midst of another discussion, I asked about
> something that was never explicitly confirmed or refuted, and I would now
> like to repeat my question (archived at
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2021-March/008683.html
> ):
>
>
>
> ? ? While many "Super", "superlocative" or 'top' cases can indeed be found
> in Uralic and in the languages of Caucasus (Ossetic (Indo-European)
> included), are there any other corners of the world with such specialized
> cases? In other words, I'm looking for morphological case distinctions as
> seen in the following Finnish word pairs:
>
>
>
> lipasto-ssa 'in the drawer' vs. lipasto-lla 'on the drawer'
>
> tule-ssa 'in the fire' vs. tule-lla 'on the fire'
>
> mere-ss? 'in the sea' vs. mere-ll? 'on the sea'
>
>
>
> I'd be happy to locate similar morphological distinctions outside the
> Uralic family and the Causasus region.
>
>
>
> (Edit: Frankly, at the time of correcting the proofs of a paper, I'd be
> happy not to locate such cases elsewhere, but the truth must win out.)
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Jussi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> >
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
> --
> John Peterson
> Linguistik und Phonetik (ISFAS)
> Christian-Albrechts-Universit?t zu Kiel
> Olshausenstra?e 40
> D-24098 Kiel
> Germany
>
>
> Tel.: (+49) (0)431-880 2414
> Fax: (+49) (0)431-880 7405
>
> http://www.isfas.uni-kiel.de/de/linguistik/mitarbeitende/john-peterson
>
> "N?s temos duas vidas e a segunda come?a quando voc? percebe que voc? s?
> tem uma?" (M?rio de Andrade)
> "We have two lives and the second begins when you realize that you only
> have one..."
>
> ________________________________
> Fr?: John Peterson <jpeterson at isfas.uni-kiel.de>
> Sent: f?studagur, 8. j?l? 2022 15:00
> Til: Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski at oulu.fi>
> Afrit: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org <
> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Efni: Re: [Lingtyp] "Super", "superlocative" or 'top' cases outside the
> Caucasus and Uralic?
>
>
> Dear Jussi,
>
> Perhaps the Konkani (Southern Indo-Aryan) case system given in the table
> below would be of interest to you? Best, John
>
>
> Case
>
> Singular
>
> Plural
>
> Nominative (= direct stem)
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
>
> The following enclitic case markers attach to the oblique stem:
>
> Objective (? Accusative / Dative)
>
> =k
>
> =k
>
> Ergative / Instrumental
>
> =n
>
> =ni
>
> Inesseive (?in?)
>
> =nt (=n) (1)
>
> =ni
>
> Superessive (?on?)
>
> =r / =cer
>
> =r / =cer
>
> "Familiessive" (?at the home of?)
>
> =ger
>
> =ger
>
> Ablative
>
> =san / =sun
>
> =cyan / =lyan
>
> =san / =sun
>
> =cyan / =lyan
>
> Genitive (general)(2)
>
> =c-? / =c-i / =c-??
>
> =l-? / =l-i / =l-??
>
> =c-? / =c-i / =c-??
>
> =l-? / =l-i / =l-??
>
> ?Kinship genitive? (?belonging to the household of?)
>
> =g?l-? / =gel-i / =g?l-??
>
> =g?l-? / =gel-i / =g?l-??
>
> Vocative
>
> ?
>
> =no
>
> Notes:
> (1) While the standard form of the inessive singular is =nt, it is often
> realized as /n/ in both speech and writing, resulting in the total
> syncretism of the ergative/instrumental and the inessive cases in both
> singular and plural.
> (2) According to the traditional analysis, the genitive forms with <c>
> (realized as /?/ before high front vowels and as /?/ elsewhere) can be used
> with all types of nouns, whereas the /l/-forms are only used with nouns
> denoting personal names of human possessors, although there are also
> exceptions. This requires further study.
>
>
> Am 08.07.2022 01:08, schrieb Jussi Ylikoski:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> More than a year ago, in the midst of another discussion, I asked about
> something that was never explicitly confirmed or refuted, and I would now
> like to repeat my question (archived at
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2021-March/008683.html
> ):
>
>
>
> ? ? While many "Super", "superlocative" or 'top' cases can indeed be found
> in Uralic and in the languages of Caucasus (Ossetic (Indo-European)
> included), are there any other corners of the world with such specialized
> cases? In other words, I'm looking for morphological case distinctions as
> seen in the following Finnish word pairs:
>
>
>
> lipasto-ssa 'in the drawer' vs. lipasto-lla 'on the drawer'
>
> tule-ssa 'in the fire' vs. tule-lla 'on the fire'
>
> mere-ss? 'in the sea' vs. mere-ll? 'on the sea'
>
>
>
> I'd be happy to locate similar morphological distinctions outside the
> Uralic family and the Causasus region.
>
>
>
> (Edit: Frankly, at the time of correcting the proofs of a paper, I'd be
> happy not to locate such cases elsewhere, but the truth must win out.)
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Jussi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> >
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
> --
> John Peterson
> Linguistik und Phonetik (ISFAS)
> Christian-Albrechts-Universit?t zu Kiel
> Olshausenstra?e 40
> D-24098 Kiel
> Germany
>
>
> Tel.: (+49) (0)431-880 2414
> Fax: (+49) (0)431-880 7405
>
> http://www.isfas.uni-kiel.de/de/linguistik/mitarbeitende/john-peterson
>
> "N?s temos duas vidas e a segunda come?a quando voc? percebe que voc? s?
> tem uma?" (M?rio de Andrade)
> "We have two lives and the second begins when you realize that you only
> have one..."
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> End of Lingtyp Digest, Vol 94, Issue 11
> ***************************************
>

-- 
Fernando O. de Carvalho
Setor de Linguística
Departamento de Antropologia (DA)
Museu Nacional - Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro (MN/UFRJ)
.
https://museunacional-ufrj.academia.edu/FernandoOdeCarvalho
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