[Lingtyp] Non-compositional words for “rock-paper-scissors"

[Nigel Vincent]

Dear David,
I'm glad you raised this. Exactly the same concern had occurred to me.
Best
Nigel


Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics
The University of Manchester

Linguistics & English Language
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures
The University of Manchester



https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html
________________________________
From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
Sent: 02 May 2022 6:44 PM
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Non-compositional words for “rock-paper-scissors"


Dear all,

I am puzzled by the ongoing use of the term "compositionality" in this thread.  Compositionality is when two (or more) meaningful expressions are brought together, and the meaning of the resulting construction is derived from the meanings of the constituent parts.  I don't see how this applies here (or am I missing something?)

David

On 02/05/2022 19:34, Tim Bodt wrote:
Hi Ian,

While in standard Dutch, Flemish and Frisian this game is commonly known by its compositional names (cf. https://taalverhalen.be/minionderzoekje/een-open-hand-een-vuist-en-twee-vingers/), there was a similar game played in the Dutch East Indies that was called by the non-compositional name soeten ('to soet', see the first page on http://www.indischhistorisch.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Anthonio_kinderspelletjes.pdf). This name is derived from its Indonesian name suwit - suit or sut (https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit, see also, for example, https://www.kompasiana.com/widikurniawan/60f979c17aa97822be2a9732/cara-suit-yang-perlahan-punah-semut-gajah-manusia, also gamsit, https://warisanbudaya.kemdikbud.go.id/?newdetail&detailCatat=7180). It is known as pingsut in Javanese (https://jv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingsut) and suten in Sundanese (https://su.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suten). Instead of rock, paper (or leaf) and scissors and the whole hand (this game is literally translated as batu, gunting, kertas or suwit jepang 'Japanese suwit', https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_gunting_kertas), the game uses elephant, man and ant and three fingers.

In using animals, I guess it is similar to the Japanese game of mushi-ken (虫拳), which originated in China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansukumi-ken).

Best, Tim.

On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 16:30, JOO, Ian [Student] <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk<mailto:ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk>> wrote:
Dear all,

I’m making a list of non-compositional words for the rock-paper-scissors game or similar games.
In other words, I’m looking for words for “rock-paper-scissors” that do not consist of words for “rock”, “paper”, and “scissors”, or any other meanings, such as German Schnick Schanck Schnuck, Thai bpao ying choop, etc.
I would much appreciate it if you could share with me any words for this game or its kind that do not consist of meaningful words.

>From Korea,
Ian
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--
David Gil

Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany

Email: gil at shh.mpg.de<mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
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