[Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective

Tue Jun 13 14:42:30 UTC 2023

Dear Tom Koss,

Thank you for you example.
Is it possible for ’shit’ be accompanied by any negator/ ’nothing’ and the like?

Warmest,
Pun Ho Lui (“Joe”)
> Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be> 於 2023年6月13日 下午10:22 寫道：
> 
> Dear all, 
> 
> German einen Scheiß ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also qualify. 
> 
> Ein-en         Scheiß  werde  ich tun!
> INDF-ACC        shit       FUT      I     do
> lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."
> 
> Ein-en      Scheiß sehe ich. 
> INDF-ACC      shit      see     I
> lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."
> 
> I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel, which sounds quite a bit dated. 
> 
> All best,
> Tom Koss
> PhD student University of Antwerp
> 
> 
> 
> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM
> To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>
> Cc: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>  
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
> This is true. 
> 
> But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - хз [хəze] 'I don't know; this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.
> 
> Michael
> 
> вт, 13 июн. 2023 г. в 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>:
> Dear all,
> 
> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui’s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
> So phrases like “I don’t know shit” wouldn’t apply, only those like “I know shit” (intended meaning: I don’t know anything).
> 
> Regards,
> Ian
> 
>> 13/6/2023 오후 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>> 작성:
>> 
>> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>> 
>> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23 PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu>> wrote:
>> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>  
>> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>  
>> (No) me           importa       un(a) coño|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>> NEG 1sg.ACC  matter.3sg  a         vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>> ‘I don’t care at all.’
>>  
>> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>  
>> Following up on the comment about đavola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there’s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options—e.g., carajo ‘shit’, cojones ‘testicles’. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as “Aggressively Non-D-Linked” wh-phrases.
>>  
>> ¿Qué   demonios quieres?
>> What  devils        want.2sg
>> ‘What the hell do you want?’
>>  
>> Best wishes,
>> Chad Howe
>>  
>> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>> To: Stefan Savić <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>
>> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>> 
>> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>> 
>> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>  
>> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "ни" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "не" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.  
>>  
>>  
>> Sincerely,
>>  
>> Michael Daniel
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> он         ни    хуя                  не    знает
>> he.nom not   penis-Sg.Gen not    knows
>> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>  
>> хуй                    тебе,             а     не   деньги
>> penis.Sg.Nom    you.sg-Dat,  and  not  money
>> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'
>>  
>> ни      хуя                 (подобн-ого)
>> not     penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> вт, 13 июн. 2023 г. в 14:45, Stefan Savić <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>:
>> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,  
>>  
>> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form đavola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular đavola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).   
>>  
>> Best,
>> Stefan
>>  
>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Dear linguists, 
>>  
>> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/“squatitive” (2):
>>  
>> (1) Cantonese 
>>      我    撚        知
>>      1sg  dick  know
>>    ‘I don’t know.’
>>  
>> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>> ‘I learn nothing.’
>>  
>> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>  
>> - Russian 
>> - German einen Teufel ‘a devil’
>> - Swedish så fan Heller
>> - French mon cul ‘my ass’ (?)
>> - Polish chuj ‘dick’; gówno ’shit’
>> - Serbian kurac ‘penis'
>> - Croatian kurac ‘penis’
>> - Colloquail Finnish “aggressive mood”
>>  
>> These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/>
>>  
>> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>  
>> Thank you.
>>  
>> Warmest,
>> Pun Ho Lui
>>  
>>  
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