[Lingtyp] Pronouns, politeness, political correctness

Wed May 10 15:28:56 UTC 2023

>
> You can request that someone use the V-form (vous, Sie,
> Usted) when addressing you, and it is universally accepted that they
> have to comply.

This is interesting. The other way around is clearly not true (in my
Spanish at least).
Has this been studied/do you have a reference?

El mié, 10 may 2023 a las 17:08, Sebastian Nordhoff (<
sebastian.nordhoff at glottotopia.de>) escribió:

> On 5/10/23 16:28, PONSONNET Maia wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > I don't have strong view on pronouns and try my best to not hurt people
> > when I communicate with them, including trying to match their preferred
> > pronouns if I can.
> >
> >
> > However, Juergen's parallel raises the question of whether one has the
> > same "ownership" relationship to pronouns as they have to their personal
> > name.
>
> an interesting aspect is that "ownership" of 2nd person pronouns is not
> contested. You can request that someone use the V-form (vous, Sie,
> Usted) when addressing you, and it is universally accepted that they
> have to comply.
>
> The same is currently not true about 3rd person pronouns.
>
> There might be some "hierarchy of rudeness" between using a dispreferred
> 2nd person pronoun, a dispreferred 3rd person pronoun and a dispreferred
> (nick)name.
>
> The 3rd person part of such a hierarchy probably needs to be split up.
> In my perception, it is ruder to say "Noam, she" than "any researcher
> who publishes his research", but I am not aware of any research backing
> this claim.
>
> Best wishes
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Ultimately, I believe this raises important and interesting questions
> > about our relationship to language in general?
> >
> >
> > Cheers and kind regards to all,
> >
> > Maïa (which is actually not the same as Maia, but I usually don't
> > protest, because these French decorations are really tricky to produce
> > on these empoverished qwerty keyboards)
> >
> >
> > Maïa Ponsonnet
> >
> > Chargée de Recherche HDR @ CNRS Dynamique Du Langage
> >
> > 14, avenue Berthelot, 69007 Lyon, FRANCE  -- +33 4 72 72 65 46
> >
> > Adjunct @ University of Western Australia
> >
> > + + + + +
> >
> > Co-rédactrice en chef du /Journal de la Société des Océanistes/
> >
> > https://journals.openedition.org/jso/
> > <https://journals.openedition.org/jso/>
> >
> > /
> > /
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *De :* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part
> de
> > Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77 at buffalo.edu>
> > *Envoyé :* mercredi 10 mai 2023 16:18
> > *À :* Christian Lehmann; lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > *Objet :* [Lingtyp] Pronouns, politeness, political correctness
> >
> > Dear Christian – I should preface this by saying that I don’t know what
> > caused your request for people to refrain from asking to be addressed
> > with their pronouns of choice. It’s very possible that I’m once again
> > missing some earlier parts of this thread. I tried to recover all parts
> > of it that had ended up in my spam folder, but it is entirely possible
> > that I missed something and as result am misunderstanding your request.
> >
> > With that said:
> >
> > You can choose to look upon this matter as an instance of political
> > correctness, but might I suggest that there is another aspect to it:
> > simple politeness.
> >
> > Suppose somebody insists in calling/addressing you (as) /Chris/. You
> > find this obnoxious and ask them to stop. They ignore you and continue
> > calling you /Chris/.
> >
> > Would you not agree that this behavior is simply rude? I definitely
> would.
> >
> > Now the policy you are suggesting, if I understand correctly, would
> > amount to asking people to refrain from even publicly objecting to being
> > addressed in a rude manner. So anybody who feels offended by how they
> > are being addressed or referred to should just either “suck it up” or
> > leave this board?
> >
> > Apparently, you believe that it is more constructive to not call out
> > rude behavior and (allow people to) quietly suffer it.
> >
> > I on the other hand feel that it would be more constructive if everybody
> > tried to refrain from being rude. If people are apparently being rude
> > without realizing it, respectfully point it out to them. And if they
> > still insist in their rude behavior even after it has been pointed out
> > to them, call them out for it.
> >
> > So it seems we have different views of how to best maintain politeness
> > in public forums.
> >
> > Best – Juergen
> >
> > Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
> > Professor, Department of Linguistics
> > University at Buffalo
> >
> > Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
> > Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
> > Phone: (716) 645 0127
> > Fax: (716) 645 3825
> > Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu <mailto:jb77 at buffalo.edu>
> > Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/ <
> http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/>
> >
> > Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585
> > 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)
> >
> > There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
> > (Leonard Cohen)
> >
> > --
> >
> > *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf
> of
> > Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 3:20 AM
> > *To: *lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <
> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> > *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] what is designated by a complement clause
> >
> > Am 10.05.23 um 09:01 schrieb Sebastian Nordhoff:
> >
> >     On 5/10/23 08:22, Christian Lehmann wrote:
> >
> >         In order to keep the constructive atmosphere in  which our
> >         communication takes place and which is a presupposition for the
> >         success of this list , I would request that everybody abstain
> >         from insisting on political correctness.
> >
> >
> >
> >     some people might have a communication preference to not be referred
> >     to by "he".
> >     You have a preference of not being reminded of these preferences of
> >     theirs (unless I have misread your message).
> >
> >     Since you request that other people adapt to your preferences,
> >
> > No, this is not what I request. I request that nobody should insist that
> > others adapt to his preferences, in this and in similar respects.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Christian
> >
> > --
> >
> > Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
> > Rudolfstr. 4
> > 99092 Erfurt
> > Deutschland
> >
> > Tel.:
> >
> >
> >
> > +49/361/2113417
> >
> > E-Post:
> >
> >
> >
> > christianw_lehmann at arcor.de <mailto:christianw_lehmann at arcor.de>
> >
> > Web:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.christianlehmann.eu <https://www.christianlehmann.eu/>
> >
> >
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-- 
Dr. Matías Guzmán Naranjo
Sprachwissenschaftliches Seminar
Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
https://mguzmann89.gitlab.io/
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