[Lingtyp] retrolative

Thu Aug 8 10:47:06 UTC 2024

Dear Christian, all,

This can also be found in some systems of associated motion, e.g. Kaytetye:
Erlkwe           aynewantheyenge      ane     mamey-eynenge      aynewantheyenge      enwe-nyeyaytne-nke
old.man        1pl.incl.poss(nom)    and     mother-coll                1pl.incl.poss(nom)    lie-GO&DO&RET-prs
‘The old men and our mothers used to go and camp out and return’
(Turpin & Ross 2012 cited in Koch 2021, p. 246)

See:
Guillaume, A., & Koch, H. (Eds.). (2021). Associated Motion. De Gruyter. https://doi.org/10.1515/9783110692099

The introduction lists some terms: bidirectional, roundtrip, counterdirectional, returnative, go&do&return

Cheers,
Sasha

--

Dr Sasha Wilmoth
Lecturer in Linguistics
School of Languages and Linguistics
University of Melbourne

From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Alex Francois via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Date: Thursday, 8 August 2024 at 8:31 PM
To: Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
Cc: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] retrolative
dear Christian,

As a point of reference, it may be interesting to note that the semantic feature of retrolative would be expressed analytically in languages with (certain types of) verb serialization.

For example, consider the Papuan language Kalam, as described in Pawley (2009)<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Pawley/publication/300841393_On_the_origins_of_serial_verb_constructions_in_Kalam/links/58d0fd8b4585158476f36662/On-the-origins-of-serial-verb-constructions-in-Kalam.pdf>:

  *   Pawley, Andrew. 2009. On the origins of serial verb constructions in Kalam. In Talmy Givón & Masayoshi Shibatani (eds.), Syntactic complexity: Diachrony, acquisition, neuro-cognition, evolution (Typological Studies in Language v. 85), 119–144. Amsterdam ; Philadelphia: Benjamins.
Pawley cites various examples of this type<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Pawley/publication/300841393_On_the_origins_of_serial_verb_constructions_in_Kalam/links/58d0fd8b4585158476f36662/On-the-origins-of-serial-verb-constructions-in-Kalam.pdf#page=4>:

(1) am mab pu-wk      d   ap    agl   kn-la-k.
       go    wood  hit-break.up get  come  ignite  sleep-3PL-PAST
     “They gathered firewood for the night.”
    [lit. ‘They went and gathered firewood and brought it, made a fire and slept.']

The retrolative semantic component is here encoded analytically, using distinct (serialized) verbs “go...  get... come...”.

Pawley calls such event-types “collecting expeditions”, and shows that the serial pattern is grammaticalized, i.e. linguistically entrenched in the phraseological / formulaic routines of Kalam. On p.135<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew-Pawley/publication/300841393_On_the_origins_of_serial_verb_constructions_in_Kalam/links/58d0fd8b4585158476f36662/On-the-origins-of-serial-verb-constructions-in-Kalam.pdf#page=18> he provides the recipe for the pattern:

[cid:ii_lzl40ncc0]

Similar analytic strategies for the retrolative meaning can be found in other serializing languages, at least in those where the sequence of clauses iconically reflects a sequence of (sub)events.
[NB:  In another type of serializing languages, all verbs must reflect simultaneous facets of a single event; they would not work in the same way.]

Think also of constructions in -て来る -te kuru  [-Converb  come]  in colloquial Japanese:
e.g.
(2)  買い物に行って来るよ。
      Kaimono=ni   it-te    ku-ru      yo.
        shopping=OBL    go-CVB   come-Npst  PTC
      “I'm going grocery-shopping.”    [lit. I'll go shopping and come.]

best
Alex
________________________________

Alex François
LaTTiCe<http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/> — CNRS–<http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html>ENS<https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094>–PSL<https://www.psl.eu/en>–Sorbonne nouvelle<http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp>
Australian National University<https://researchprofiles.anu.edu.au/en/persons/alex-francois>
Personal homepage<http://alex.francois.online.fr/>
_________________________________________

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 10:19
Subject: [Lingtyp] retrolative
To: <LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>>

Dear colleagues,

I was told occasionally that there is a local relation - let's call it retrolative - consisting of a movement to reference point R and back to the point of departure. In the languages that have it in their grammar, it would be in a paradigm with ablative, allative, perlative. Unless I am mistaken, English only has it embodied in the meaning of fetch, and likewise in German holen.

  1.  Is retrolative the right term, or is the relation known under a different term?
  2.  Please give me a representative example of the type 'Jane went to R round-trip' or 'Jane fetched the axe from the shed' using a retrolative case or adposition or a retrolative formative in some other structural category.
Thanks in advance,
Christian
--

Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
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