[Lingtyp] Intuitions about inclusive time reference

Thu Feb 15 11:39:04 UTC 2024

 Dear Östen,

In my variety of BCMS (Bosnian-Croatian-Montenegrin-Serbian) from Belgrade,
and somewhat in line with some of the responses above, I'd say the
translation really depends on my (the speaker's) attitude to the
proposition (Mary sending her application today).

If I do not want to commit to state that she has managed/will manage to
send it in the course of today, I'd probably say:

(1)
Danas bi         trebalo                   da   Marija
 aplicira                za grant.
today.  COND ought.PST.SG.N  that Mary.F.SG.NOM apply.PRS.IPFV for
grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM

(2)
Trebalo                  bi           da   je                  Marija
            danas  aplicirala            za grant.
ought.PST.SG.N COND    that be.PRS.3SG Mary.F.SG.NOM today   apply.PST.F.SG
for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM

Note that many speakers of my variety conjugate *treba(ti)* as a finite
verb (a use rejected by prescriptivists, i.e. by the standard variety of
Serbian, which only allow the form *treba* in the non-past and *trebalo* in
the past tense), hence one encounters also *trebala je da aplicira*, *trebala
je aplicirati* etc. Also, the verb *aplicirati* is rather new (and is
biaspectual) and can be replaced by a more "traditional" *prijaviti se *(PFV)
or prijavljivati* se *(IPFV), and the noun *grant* can also be replaced by
a number of alternatives, such as *finansiranje *(+ GEN)*, finansijska
sredstva (za ....),* *stipendija*, etc.

If the speaker feels comfortable stating that she will send her application
today, I'd go for the present tense (3), the past tense (4) if I am certain
she already has submitted it or the future if I am certain she has not done
it yet but will do so by the end of the day (5)

(3)
Marija                 danas aplicira               za grant.
Mary.F.SG.NOM today  apply.PRS.3SG for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM

(4)
Marija                  je                  danas aplicirala            za
grant.
Mary.F.SG.NOM be.PRS.3SG today  apply.PST.F.SG for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM

(5)
Marija                 će                    danas aplicirati   za grant.
Mary.F.SG.NOM will.PRS.3SG  today  apply.INF for grant.M.SG.ACC.INANIM

Best,
Stefan

Sent from Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
------------------------------
*From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
Lidia Federica Mazzitelli <lfmazzitelli at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2024 11:43:31 AM
*To:* Östen Dahl <oesten at ling.su.se>
*Cc:* LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
*Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Intuitions about inclusive time reference

Dear Östen,

In Italian I would say:

"*Oggi Mary spedisce la domanda*" ** Today Mary submits the application' -
if I am just fact-stating (In a context like Colleague A: "How's it going
with that proposal Mary has been working on? ME: *Tutto bene, oggi la
spedisce *"All good, today she submits it" - it is fine both in case she
already sent it/ she has not yet sent it.)

 "*Oggi Mary dovrebbe spedire la domanda*" 'Today Mary should submit the
application' (who knows if she will at all?)  - if chatting with a third
colleague about Mary (and I am unsure whether she will be submitting the
application at all).

(** Please note: In real life I'd say "*oggi Maria sottomette la
domanda per la grant*", o "oggi *Maria sottomette l'applicazione**" *but I
would then have to endure endless reprimands from purists who say "you
don't use "sottomettere" and "applicare"/"applicazione" in Italian with
that meaning!" - even if almost everyone uses them (and I fully
endorse this use). I don't even try to translate grant, so I blocked it out
from my translation.)

My intuition on Lakurumau, an Oceanic language of PNG, is that they would
use the irrealis - unless they were absolutely certain she had already sent
it (But that's not the context you imagined, right?)

T*aning** Mary  ka=daa        lis     paan-in    a     application  pan=a
    grant*
today  M.      3SG.S=IRR  send  go-APPL ART application OBL=ART grant

Best,
Lidia

Il mer 14 feb 2024, 22:29 Östen Dahl <oesten at ling.su.se> ha scritto:

I would like to ask for intuitions about the following, in one or more
languages that you are acquainted with.

Suppose your colleague Mary said on Monday: "Tomorrow I'm going to submit
my grant proposal." Now it's about noon on Tuesday, and you have no idea
whatsoever of the time of the realization of her intention. Maybe she did
it in the morning, maybe she'll wait until midnight, and maybe she's just
doing it right now. How would you express the sentence below in your
language(s), replacing SUBMIT by a suitable verb form? The idea is that you
should try to use a maximally simple and natural formulation without
excluding any possibility.

Today Mary SUBMIT her grant proposal

All comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance!

- Östen
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