LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 30.JUL.2001 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 30.JUL.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachian, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
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From: "Henno Brandsma" <henno_brandsma at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 28.JUL.2001 (02) [E]

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Etymology
>
>Dear Lowlanders,
>
>I am wondering about the etymology of the Dutch word _ouderwets_ and the
>West(erlauwers) Frisian cognate _âlderwetsk_, both meaning 'oldfashioned'.

>
>I wonder if Low Saxon (Low German) _ollerwelsch_ ['?Ol3vE%lS] ~
>_ollerweltsch_ ['?Ol3vE%ltS] 'old -fashioned' is related to the above.
>_Oller..._ clearly comes from _older..._, thus is the cognate of Dutch
>_ouder..._ and West(erlauwers) Frisian _âlder..._.  I used to believe that

>the _...welsch_ part had something to do with obsolete German _welsch_
>denoting 'foreign', oftentimes specifically 'Romance', originally 'Celtic'

>_Wereld_ for 'world'.)  Now I am wondering if _ollerwel(t)sch_ is a
>"distortion" of *_ollerwettsch_, thus a cognate of the Dutch and
>West(erlauwers) Frisian words.  Yes, Low Saxon, too, has the word _Wett_ ~

>_Wedd_ [vEt] (feminine, pl. _Wedden_ ['vEd=n]) and can use it in the same
>sense as Dutch and West(erlauwers) Frisian use _wet_, especially in the
>far-western dialects.  What do my fellow etymologists think?
>
>Other Low Saxon words for 'old-fashioned' are _oldmoodsch_ ['?o%ltmo:tS]
>(cf. German _altmodisch_ < _Mood'_ < _Mode_ < French _mode_ 'fashion',
>'manner'), _oldbacksch_ ['?o%ltbakS] (assumedly from _backen_ 'to bake'),

Note that West Frisian also has _âldmoadrich_ [O:mwadr at x], also
from _âld_ + _moade_ + _erich_ (suffix that turns in into an adjective)

>and _oldfranksch_ ['?o%ltfra%NkS] ~ _oldfränksch_ ['?o%ltfrE%NkS].  I find

>the last of these intriguing, because it literally means "Old Frankish,"

And also WF _âldfrinzich_ with the same meaning, where *_frinzich_ is an
old
assibilated form of Frankish as well, only surviving in this word. (cf.
_tins_ = thought, ~ _tinke_ = to think etc.)

>considering that this is a Saxon word, and considering the historically
>uneasy relationship between Franks and Saxons.  Does anyone know the story

>behind this word?

This letter type maybe corroborates the _Welsch_ theory of _wells_, as this

also refers to a name of a people..
Otherwise one would have to assume a -dd- to -ll- change in _ollerwells_,
which is not very common (maybe via -rr-?)

>Your feedback will be appreciated.
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Henno Brandsma

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