LL-L "Morphology" 2003.02.23 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Pronouns" 2003.02.22 (05) [E/LS]

> From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
> Subject: Pronouns
>
> > From: Peter Meylof <p.meylof at planet.nl>
> > Subject: Persoonlike veurnoamwoordn [LS]
and others:

I was waiting / hoping for something that isn't
coming:
the dualis [we-both / you-both].

As far as I know lowl.ll. use the dualis only in some
Frisian villages on the German coast: 'wat' [we-both]
and 'jat' [you-both]. So I was informed some 25 years
ago by 2 linguists who had their origins there.

The dualis was regular [more or less] in Oldgermanic.

Linguistically speaking the dualis is not something
special; it is to be found the world round.

But can you remember any traces of the dualis in your
home-language?
Are there any special ways to express we-both and
you-both and they-both in your home-language?
And would you ask your grandgrandmother about it?

vr. gr.
Theo Homan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Hello, Theo!

Sorry I was preoccupied and forgot about your first request regarding dual
forms, which I myself find fascinating too.

I am sure it doesn't come as news to you when I say that the dual is still
used in Icelandic.  (I am not sure about Faeroese.)

> As far as I know lowl.ll. use the dualis only in some
> Frisian villages on the German coast: 'wat' [we-both]
> and 'jat' [you-both]. So I was informed some 25 years
> ago by 2 linguists who had their origins there.

Are you referring to Frisian varieties of Germany, specifically North
Frisian?

I have been "hoping" for at least traces of earlier dual use in Eastern
Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects, in part because they have West
Slavonic substrates, and some of today's West Slavonic varieties still have
the dual.  So I am not giving you the hoped-for reply, only join you in your
quest.

Does anyone know if there are any Kashubian varieties that use dual forms?
(Kashubian is by many seen as the only surviving, easternmost branch of
Pomeranian, and many LS dialects of Germany's Baltic Sea coast have West
Pomeranian substrates.)

Theo, the dual is still alive and kicking, almost totally intact, in Sorbian
(Lusatian), a group of West Slavonic varieties unique to the area now under
German administration, a group of dialects with two standard varieties:
"Upper" and "Lower."  If you are interested in this (i.e., beyond Germanic),
I will be happy to send you some data, privately due to being off-topic
(unless a "bridge" can be found).

In my experience with other language families (e.g., Semitic, Altaic,
Malayo-Polynesian), the dual category tends to be one of the first
"luxuries" or "burdens" to disappear in the "streamlining" of languages.
Oftentimes only petrified alternative pronouns remain, or petrified affixed
names attest to the former existence of the dual in a given language.

Best regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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