LL-L "Names" 2005.07.19 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 19.JUL.2005 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: Place names on "-borg" in Low Saxon

Hi everyone,

I noticed that there are different pronunciations for my home town Hamburg.
Coloquial is "Hambuich" (with ch as in ich)
In Low Saxon I have heard "Hamborg" (with ch as in ach) and I have also 
heard
Hamborg (with ch as in ich).

Which one is the usual way to do this? My collection of dictionaries does 
not
tell me. Do you know more about this?

Two more questions concerning -borg for nds.wikipedia.org:
* for Magdeburg I have found "Meideborch" and "Meideborg" with 47 to 18
occurences in favour of "Meideborch". Is that a special spleen of Magdeborg?
I have not seen this for other place names on -borg. Would it make sense to
unify this to "Magdeborg"?
* How about Luxemburg? The usual ending for places on -burg in LS is -borg. 
At
the moment the article is listed as "Luxemburg". Would it make sense to move
it to "Luxemborg" or should we just leave it as it is, because it is outside
of the LS area?

I am looking forward to your answers,

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann
Hamburg, Germany

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Names

Welcome back, dear Heiko, and _Hummel-Hummel_!  It's great to see you again.

I say ["hambURk] in "good" German, ["hambUIC] in Missingsch or other "bad" 
Northern German, and ["ha:\mbOVx] in Low Saxon.  In Low Saxon I say 
["ma%IdebOVx] for what in German is _Magdeburg_ (["ma(:)gd at bURk], but in 
Missingsch ["mQ:gdebUIC]), and I spell it _Maideborg_ in Low Saxon.  I would 
never adopt the "phonetic" spelling _...borch_.  The [x] or [C] 
pronunciations are merely allophones of final <-g>, allophones by rule. 
When you add _-er_ you would always use <-g-> (_Hamborger_ ["ha%mbOVg3`], 
_Maideborger_ ["ma%IdebOVg3`]).

Since Low Saxon has no standard orthography, I suggest people write place 
names as they are pronounced in their individual dialects.  For instance, in 
the dialect of Bielefeld they pronounce and write the name of their city 
_Builefeild_, but I say and write _Biel(e)feld_ ["bi:l(e)fE%lt].

Tschüß!

Reinhard/Ron

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