LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.24 (04) [E/LS/Norwegian]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24.JUL.2005 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2005.07.22 (05) [E/LS]

Heather and Heinrich wrote:

Heather (ladies first!):

> If 'hinseln'  is related to Seele - this giving peace to the soul may be
> at
> the heart of it.

Wow- very interesting! Thanks!

Heinerich (opp Platt):

> den bruuk, woar de nobers de Kist ( Sarg is kien haugdüütsch word!)...
(Hein'k, Du meenst woll, 'Sarg' weer keen *Nedderdüütsch* Woord.)
Schallst woll Recht mit hebben, man- in uns Rebeed waard ouk 'Kist' bruukt,
liekers alleen in 'Vulgärplatt'.

Jüst sou de Snack:
> dat "Fell
> vesuupen".
Höört sick ne, sou wat opp een Truerfier tou seggen. Waard as 'pietätlous'
anseen.

Man- soopen waard hier mennigmool ouk düchdig. Ick kann mi besinnen, as ick
'n lütt Jungen weer, wat miin Vadder bi dat _hinseln_ för Gewalt duhn wonnen
weer. Weer reell koumisch, em vöör  't Schapp tou beleeven, as he versöch,
siin swatten Frack door weller rin tou kriegen.

Een Deel door noch tou: een goude Beerdigung waard van een slechte woll heel
akk'rat ünnerscheeden: oule Lüüd, in een segent Öller, sünt 'goude', un'
junge Gest sün 'slechte'. Is denn (bi dat Tweede) jo ouk reell truurig'n
Schiet.

 Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.24 (03) [E]

>There is a discussion about the origin of LS "hinseln". I've read some of
>the postings about that and I'm not sure, if that, what I have to post
>aboutthis topic was not already posted before. So anyway this is what I
>found:
>
>Hänseln is in German (LG and HG) to tease someone. Today nobody actually
>knows what's its origin.
>
>Hänseln is LG and originally means "to admit someone as a member of the
>Hanse in terms of community".

Compare English "handsel" meaning (among other things) "initial payment".
OED says there is synonymous Danish "handsel". Old English ancestor was
apparently "handselen" = "a giving into the hand of another" (Bosworth and
Toller, which also gives an Icelandic cognate). Perhaps the "tease" sense
was originally in reference to "hazing" (initiation ritual) of a new
fraternity member or the like? Just a casual thought.

-- Doug Wilson

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From: Jan Strunk <strunkjan at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.24 (03) [E]

Dear Lowlanders,

what Karl-Heinz Lorenz wrote about "hänseln/hinseln" seems to be exactly 
right.
I am currently reading an excellent book (that could be added to our list 
about Low Saxon and the Scandinavian languages):

Agnette Nesse (2003): Slik ble vi bergensere. Hanseatene og 
bergensdialekten.
Sigma Forlag.

I will give you some lengthy quotes about the introductory rituals of the 
Hansa in Bergen.
Note that after these rituals, those that had gone through them had to 
invite everyone
to a round of beer....

"Spillingen

Verre enn hardt arbeid og kalde hus, har trolig introduksjonsspillene vært. 
Alle som
kom ny til Kontoret, de såkalte nikamers (nykommerne) måtte gjennomføre 
dette i
løpet av en viss periode. Det ble nøye holdt oversikt over hvem som hadde 
spilt, som de
sa, og når en gutt var ferdigspilt, dvs. når han hadde gjennomført de 
spillene han måtte
gjennom, var det fest. Da måtte den ferdigspilte spandere øl på de andre."
(p. 22)

"Playing

Worse than hard work and cold houses probably were the introductory rituals 
(playing). All
who came to the Kontor (i.e. the trade post) for the first time, the 
so-called nikamers (newcomers)had to go through these within a certain 
period of time. Detailed record was
kept about who had already "played" as they said and when a boy ("gutt" in 
Norwegian, "Jung" in Middle Low Saxon) had finished playing, i.e. when he 
had gone through the plays he had to go through, there was a party. The one 
who had completed the rituals then had to pay a round of beer for the 
others."

And further:
"Jeg har allerede nevnt at det i sin tid ble hevdet at en bakgrunn for 
spillene var å holde rikmannssønner borte fra Kontoret. Vel så viktig tror 
jeg et annet moment er, nemlig at
spillene virket samlende på den kontorske identitet. Når alle måtte gjennom 
spillingen, bidro det til at de alle sammen hadde noe felles, en felles 
opplevelse som starten på sitt kontorske liv."

"I have already told you that one reason for the plays at that time was to 
keep the sons of rich men away from the Kontor. But I also think that 
another reason that was just as important was
that the plays had a unifying effect on the identity of the Kontor's 
society. The fact that all had to go through the plays meant that they all 
had something in common, a common experience at the beginning of the life at 
the Kontor." (p. 23)

"Generelt handlet spillene om å bli påført fysisk ubehag, enten ved vold som 
direkte pryling, eller ved å utsettes for utmattende ting som å puste inn 
illeluktende røyk eller være lenge under
vann. Fornedrelse har også vært en viktig del av det hele, for eksempel ved 
å få ansiktet dyppet i skitt. Ved å takle spillene, viste guttene styrke, og 
derved at de var harde nok til å takle livet på Kontoret. Ved å gå gjennom 
fornedrelse og ydmykelse, viste de at de underkastet seg
Kontorets hierarki. Det hører med til historien at spillingen ble forsøkt 
forbudt en lang periode før de endelig tok slutt. Noen ganger var guttene 
rett og slett ikke sterke nok, eller spillene ble utført ekstra brutalt, 
slik at resultatet ble dødsfall." (p. 24)

"In general, the plays were about being submitted to physical discomfort, 
either by violence such as direct beating or by being subjected to 
exhausting things like having to breath in foul smelling smoke or having to 
stay under water for a long time. Humiliation also was a big part, e.g. by 
getting once face dunked into excrements. By tackling the plays, the boys 
showed strength and that they were tough enough to endure the life at the 
Kontor. By going through humiliation and abasement, they proved that they 
subjected themselves to the hierarchy of the Kontor. It is a part of history 
that people tried to get the plays prohibited for a long time before they 
finally were abandoned. Sometimes the boys were simply not strong enough or 
maybe the plays were carried out with extra brutality so that they resulted 
in casualties."

I can really recommend this book for all who can read Norwegian. It is an 
extremely informed view on the history of the dialect of Bergen and the 
influence that Low Saxon had on its
development.

Jan Strunk
strunk at linguistics.rub.de

> From: Karl-Heinz Lorenz <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
> Hänseln is LG and originally means "to admit someone as a member of the
> Hanse in terms of community".
>
> A new one has to do something (a ritual, for example a "Mutprobe" = a test
> of courage) and often in addition to pay a certain amount of money to
> become
> a member. German "Einstand": A new employee gets his social acceptance by
> the others after he has payed for a round etc. As long as the new one has
> not fullfilled this social duty, the others criticised or mocked: "He hett
> noch nich hänselt!"
>
> So Hänse/Hense  is the money which had to be paid and also a test of
> courage
> to get admitted; hänsen, hensen, later: hansen, hanseln and hinseln is the
> verb.

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