LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.06.01 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: mathieu at brabants.org <mathieu at brabants.org>
Subject: LL-L 'Language varieties'

Roger Hondshoven wrote:

> I agree that 'gooien' is the word most often used in the General Dutch
> variety in Belgium. To my mind, 'werpen' sounds rather stif and archaic.
> In Flemish dialects, however, 'werpen' is, next to 'smijten',  is the
> normal word.

>> <werpen> vs <gooien>
>>
>> I guess here gooien is your Flemish variant?

No, 'gooien' is much more common in the Netherlands than 'werpen.

So, appearently the werpen-gooien example is no good; in both the
Netherlands and Belgium people most often use 'gooien' when speaking
standard Dutch. 'Werpen' is a little bit archaic in both countries.

Regards,
Mathieu

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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.31 (01) [E]


>From: "Roger Hondshoven" <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
>Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.20 (07) [E]
>
>I agree that 'gooien' is the word most often used in the General Dutch
>variety in Belgium. To my mind, 'werpen' sounds rather stif and archaic. In
>Flemish dialects, however, 'werpen' is, next to 'smijten',  is the normal
>word.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Roger Hondshoven

What village are you from? (or what dialect do you speak... kind of the same
question :))
Even in my region "waarpe" sounds odd... "Goeie" or indeed "smaaite" (with
hij or gij(lie) = smet) are usual among dialect speakers. If it's proper to
the General Dutch variety of Belgium only, not that of the Netherlands, but
is not used in our dialects either, where does this gooien come from then?
Of course Antwerp as a city often has other words than the Brabantish
countryside... (a lot more Standard Dutch words too, as some dialect cards
show).
Anyway, time for dinner, I'll ask my dad who's brought up in dialect whether
he thinks waarpe is used.

D. Masure
[Diederik]

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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.31 (01) [E]


>From: "Roger Hondshoven" <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
>Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.20 (07) [E]
>
>I agree that 'gooien' is the word most often used in the General Dutch
>variety in Belgium. To my mind, 'werpen' sounds rather stif and archaic. In
>Flemish dialects, however, 'werpen' is, next to 'smijten',  is the normal
>word.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Roger Hondshoven

My father confirmed my thought that werpen is not used in Antwerps, but
gooien or smijten.
But also another so-called "Southern" word, zenden, has been replaced by its
Northern concurrent: sturen. The /ie/-vowel that one would expect, stieren,
seems to have died out. My father also recognised sturen as the Antwerps
word. (So maybe I'm the only one in the city that rather uses stieren. But
that's rather ideological dialect than actual spoken dialect.)

Maybe West-Flanders keeps the old situation better alive.

D. Masure (again)
[Diederik]

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

In most North Saxon dialects of Low Saxon, _smyten_ (<smieten>)* tends to be
the default word for 'to throw', 'to cast'.  It tends to be the equivalent
of German _werfen_.  The cognate of German _werfen_ and Dutch _werpen_ seems
to be lost.  (I would expect *_warpen_, petrified in _mulwarp_ ~ _mulworp_
'mole').  In the farwestern dialects, especially in those of Eastern
Friesland, you get _goyen_ (<gooien>).

* The English cognate "to smite," originally 'to throw', later specialized
in 'to administer a blow'.

Regards/Ron

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