LL-L "Morphology" 2005.11.14 (05) [E]

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14 November 2005 * Volume 05
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2005.11.13 (03) [E]

Re: dimunitives it may be worth noting that Irish is less productive in this 
area than it used be, due in part to English influence via second language 
users. Historically the main dimunitive suffixes were -ín, -án and -óg 
depending on the district and context. Nowadays one is just as likely to 
see -aí which represents a borrowing of English -ie or -y. (In Irish -aí 
actually traditionally denotes a plural or the genitive suffix of an 
abstract noun.) Dimunitive forms such as Páidí "Paddy" < Pádraig and Séimí 
"Shamie" < Séamas are now usual whereas traditional forms would be Páidín 
and Séamasín.



At least that is my perception.



Go raibh maith agat



Críostóir.

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2005.11.13 (03) [E]

Dear Ingmar,

you wrote:
> Should we conclude from this that the fact that German has six different
> forms here, "ich bin, du bist, er ist, wir sind, ihr seid, sie sind"
> is Romance or Slavonic influence?
I think so, because it's obviously very close to Latin, like the greater
part of the whole German/Dutch/English grammar. The difference to the
Scandinavian languages could result from less Roman influence there.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Hey, Críostóir!

> Historically the main dimunitive suffixes were -ín, -án and -óg

_-ín_: as in Germanic _-(l)în_.

_-óg_: as in Slavonic _-ek_ ~ _-ok_.

Jonny, it's a commonly held false assumption that grammars change from 
simple to complex. Actually, we observe more of the opposite. Geramic had a 
complex system before and in the absence of contacts with Latin.

'to be'

Old ... German | Saxon | Norwegian | Swedish | English | Gothic

1 sg  bin | bium | em | æm/ær | wese | wisa/im
2 sg  bist | bist | ert/est | æst | wesst | wisis/is

3 sg  ist | ist | er/es | ær | wes(t) | wisiþ/ist
1 pl  sint | sind | erum | ærum | wesaþ | wisôs/siju//wisam/sijum
2 pl  birt/sot | sind | eruð | ærin | wesaþ | wisats; sijuts//wisiþ/sijuþ
3 pl  sint | sind | eru | æru/æri/aru | wesaþ | wisand/sind

Old Saxon, Old Norse/Norwegian/Icelandic and Old Swedish, at the very least, 
had no contacts with Latin.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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