LL-L "Language acquisition" 2006.05.07 (05) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 07 May 2006 * Volume 05
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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language acquisition" 2006.05.07 (01) [E]

RE: Dutch as a difficult language.
Yes Pat it is. I have no authoritative statements for you, but only my own
experience with about 200 students in over 15 years. (Amongst them were
three couples where one was a native English speaker and the other came from
Germany)
 If we leave the matter of accent aside, learning Dutch is certainly
difficult for English speakers and maybe not so much for speakers of German
and French,- to give an example of a Germanic and a Romance language each.
Not only do German speakers have a large amount of cognates at their
disposition,(and more often than not these cognates do have the same meaning
in both languages), they also have more or less the same grammar and
therefore only have to accustom themselves to the pesky idioms. I bet you
also that for a German with a Low Saxon background, which has a lot of
idiomatic similarity with Dutch, it is easier to learn Dutch than for
somebody who only knows High German.
For the Frenchman who learns Dutch, everything is strange.
Grammar, Syntax and Idioms are all totally different than what he speaks at
home. For them it "simply" involves getting used to a totally different way
of expressing themselves.
The English speakers, however, find themselves as the proverbial ass between
the two haystacks. Their language smacks both of the Germanic and the
French. At first sight the languages seem so similar. Although it is true
that Dutch and English share many cognates, (the basic vocabulary of English
is largely of Germanic origin and we almost exclusively share the same
"strong verbs", but the languages sound sufficiently different and are
certainly spelled differently. Also, only the simplest of all syntax is the
same. The moment there are two verbs in the sentence, the similarity ends.
Many of my students complain bitterly about the prevalence of separable
verbs and I must confess that after almost 50 years in the US I still feel
that for me it is more natural to say "he chucked his dinner up" than "he
upchucked his dinner". But the main stumbling block seems to be that both
languages are extremely idiomatic; Dutch even more so than English. This
shows up the moment you stop translating the simple phrases in the Grammar,
and start reading and listening to the way people really speak.

As a teacher of mostly adult students in the US, I bemoan the fact that with
very few exceptions, their knowledge of grammar is woefully lacking, but
that is not necessary so in other countries. I also think that the
similarity of the languages lulls the students to believe that they can get
away with a minimum of work. Having said this, I must also say that I have
had students that have learned to speak the language passably well and in
three or four cases very well.

Hope this helps. Jacqueline

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language acquisition

Hi, Jacqueline!

You wrote:

> I bet you
> also that for a German with a Low Saxon background, which has a lot of
> idiomatic similarity with Dutch, it is easier to learn Dutch than for
> somebody who only knows High German.

I agree in general.  However, it has its own problems and pitfalls, as is 
the case whenever two varieties are largely mutually intelligible (and 
mutual intelligibility would be even greater in writing were it not for the 
different writing systems).  Close proximity tempts the learner with 
laziness and cutting corners.  ("I pretty much know the language already. So 
why cram grammar and stuff?")  The result is less misunderstanding than 
"tolerable interference," especially the use of impromptu 
_Patent-Niederländisch_.  Another "problem" is that this 
_Patent-Niederländisch_ with Low Saxon interference is pretty easy for a 
Dutch speaker to understand, and the learner thus gets away with it in most 
cases and thus slows down the learning process.  Even before I ever somewhat 
seriously tried to learn to use Dutch I had conversations with Dutch 
speakers in which I "Neerlandified" my Low Saxon on the basis of my passive 
knowledge of Dutch and Afrikaans.  They always understood me, even those 
that had little or no German.  I bet some of them just thought my Dutch as a 
second language was just not too great.  Little did they know that I was 
kind of faking it.  ;-)  My father, who was very bad at language learning, 
would use Low Saxon when he worked in the Netherlands, and he did cope all 
right.  People probably just thought he spoke a far-out dialect.

I assume that it would be similar for English speakers to learn Scots. 
Faking it is very tempting indeed.

At times I wonder if it isn't better in the long run to learn a language 
that is totally alien, of which you know no relatives, because you have to 
learn it truly from the bottom up, so to speak.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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