LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.05.03 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  03 May 2007 - Volume 02

=========================================================================

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.05.02 (02) [E]

Subject: Language maintenance

Thanks, Diederik.

Yes, I think it was Pat that posted the text a few days ago.  But I still
found it interesting to look at the actual article.

To those that don't read German please let me briefly explain that this
article in Spiegel (an important, more "serious" magazine published in
Germany) explains the states and situations of Germany's minority languages
and predicts that these will vanish within a generation or so if they are
not maintained and passed on.

To most of us, this isn't stunning news.  However, it's good to see it
featured in the mainstream press, considering that the majority of German
speakers don't know (much) about it nor care about it but need to realize
that these are important issues for some people.  I suppose that the
reaction of many will be something like "Good riddance," considering that
those that have been around for a while have been taught that ethnic and
linguistic diversity is a problem for a country rather than an asset.  But,
as in most places, the wind has been changing direction.

I maintain that the main obstacle lies in the "main players'" failure to be
open to new approaches in order to foster alternative publications and
performances and thus to attract more and younger people to the minority
language communities.  The communities themselves are in great part to blame
in that they tend to be non-supportive of unconventional approaches and tend
to be unwelcoming and discouraging toward younger people that are
enthusiastic but are not first-language speakers.

I consider the Sorbian community to be ahead as far as approach is
concerned, though its speaker numbers are dwindling also and there are
problems recruiting younger actors, for instance.  At least there are some
admirable novel publishing and performing efforts.  I am impressed by the
level of some published Sorbian writing, especially poetry, and there have
been some stunning theater and recital performances as well as much support
for modern art among ethnic Sorbs (not necessarily all native speakers of
Sorbian). My assessment of this is that the main reason for this relatively
high level of vitality and openness is that Sorbs, though German citizens,
definitely consider themselves ethnically separate and independent from
ethnic Germans and related but also independent from neighboring West
Slavonic communities (Silesians, Poles, Kashubians, Lachs, Czechs and
Slovaks).  I assume that progressively high levels of artistic expression
among Poles, Czechs and Slovaks have been inspiring them to venture beyond
traditional approaches.  Also, I am under the impression that most Sorbs
have simply accepted the fact that their languages are strongly
German-influenced, and they are moving on from there instead of moaning and
groaning about declining standards while the languages fade into oblivion in
the meantime.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

I wonder if "vanish" isn't pushing the definition a bit; To quote from the
article:

 ""Gouden Dai. Wo gungt et die?" Nur noch 2500 Menschen auf der Erde können
sich so auf Saterfriesisch nach dem Wohlbefinden anderer erkundigen..."

Well, that specific form might be on the way out, but as an English speaker
with reasonable German, rusty Afrikaans and some knowledge of Dutch and
Danish, it's pretty obvious what that means, and things very like that are
said daily across a huge tract of Northern Europe.  There are bigger
differences within what is broadly called "English".

Languages and dialects die, so do people.  Like people, some leave no
descendants, but the Low German group can hardly be classed in that group!

Paul Finlow-Bates
----------

From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenances" 2007.05.02 (06) [D/E]

Beste Diederik and Ron,

*Diederik schreyv:*

> That's a very interesting thought. Here one of the reasons for not using
dialect among younger people is among others the feeling
> that we can't speak it correctly anymore. Even most of my friends that
think the dialect should be spoken again, are pessimistic
> because eventhough their parents speak it to them, they are not used to
speaking it and feel that their Antw. is not like 'it should be'. > That
their 'Dutch' is not like it should be either is of course no point to
anyone, as noone is capable of speaking Dutch. But you'll
> often get a remark when they hear you try to speak dialect, but hear that
some sounds are wrong, or with Dutch substrate words.
> (and as said will noone say anything when they hear dialect substrate in
your Dutch).
> I think we should just accept that we can't speak like our grandparents
anymore but that's a big step.

It's about the same situation over here, in my LS-area. And one reason
for this development is: these young speakers are irritated by the
discrepancy between their home-dialect they (less and less!) hear from their
next sorrounders and some written stuff or badly spoken 'Patent-Platt'. They
don't aspect it any longer as their *own* language as we did in our youth,
with enough distance to those influences.
And even one more thing I must add: young pupils in Germany nowadays start
to learn English in the age of 7 or 8 at school, and besides Standard German
it is another language close to LS. It's difficult in special situations to
pronounce e.g. the word LS *'all'* or *'al'* in the correct LS-way or, in
the next moment, in the demanded English way.
The same happens to me if I shall read out any LS text close to but not *
exactly* written in my home dialect- it's nearly impossible to do it
fluently. My 'inner ear' always tries to correct the letters my eyes see.
(Things are different if I read well written EFLS; then the differences get
accepted because I hear a variety I've really learned in its home area for
more than one year!)

*Ron schreyv:*

>  While there  were still archaic dialects in the *countryside*, the
varieties of English used in the cities had become very much influenced by >
French,  and the grammar was a far cry from that of Old English.  In turn
those more powerful French-influenced English dialects influenced > the
country dialects.

[and in LL-L"Orthography" 2007.04.13(08):

> Dat Kœnen hangt schients vun de Landluft (d.h. Mist- un Addelröök) af;]

Obviously those people weren't afraid of the smell of dung and sullage ;-)!?

> In the long run it is the community of *speakers* that will decide the
direction of development,

I fully agree with you, Ron! But less and less people will *speak *LS, for
instance! Have a little look back in this threat. Karl-Heinz Lorenz, Marcus
Buck etc. some days ago wrote that they're afraid that *every* (German)
dialect will vanish in future, caused by modern influences as there are TV,
radio, foreign music-textes etc. and, last but not least, by the great
mobility people today must have for professional reasons.

> * P.S.: Bryan, I don't necessarily mean "preserving for all times."

Indeed: we all just can try to 'can' our old languages and dialects for
later generations of interested linguists.
The more I deal with all those international experiences and arguments the
less I believe in any rebirth...

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20070503/a1d42730/attachment.htm>