LL-L "Phonology" 2007.10.20 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  20 October 2007 - Volume 01
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Diederik Masure < didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.10.15 (01) [E]

From: Jaap Liek <ir.j.liek at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.10.14 (05) [E]

In het Schouws (Noord-Zeeuws) noemen we dat insect een 'mogge'.

Ok... this friend spoke (speaks) the archaic dialect of Alblasserwaard/-dam
or some place about there, I guess the unrounding isn't the same
everywhere...

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder < ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL >
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.10.14 (05) [E]

What Diederick (ha, hoe gaat het met jou?) wrote is true for short u.
Written u in closed syllables stands for the short sound [Y] or rather [2]
in Standard Dutch, and for [U] in German. U in open syllables in Dutch is
[y], or [y:] before r. In close syllables, this is spelt uu. Examples:
rug [r2x] = back, bukken ["b2k@] = to bend; futen ["fyt@] = a kind of
water bird (plural), buren ["by:r@] = neighbors; huur [hy:r] = rent; fuut
[fyt] = a kind of water bird (singular). In German, long u = [u:],
sometimes spelt uh. I thought, Ben, you were not asking about Old Germanic
u, only how it is used in ortho and prono in Dutch and German nowadays, is
that true? Well, the state border is the pronunciation border as well in
this case: e.g. at the Dutch side of the border "natuur" = [na"ty:r], and
at the German side it's "Natur" = [na"thu:9].

Ah yes, only after sending the mail I remembered that /y/ actually is
pronounced /Y/ in the Netherlands and parts of Belgium... I keep stubbornly
using my /y/ (and long /y./ [or /Y./] with distinctive length for uu) even
when speaking more or less standard Dutch - the /Y/ is something most people
I know don't manage to get over their lips (similar with /i/ vs. /I/- for
being Hollandic, or even worse, West-Flemish (no offence - this however is
how the average Aantwaarpener sees it). And of course we don't want to sound
like people in de Vlönders with their strange /e/ instead of /i/ etc...;)
I myself keep talking after my sister/repeating what she says whenever she
produces those weird /Y/ and /I/'s. Stupid "dictie"classes.

Thus; although not officially, /y/ actually is used quite a lot in belgian
(sub)standard dutch.

But the actual pronounciation of /y/ or /Y/ doesn't affect the main point of
my above explanation anyway:)
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