LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.22 (03) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  21 October 2007 - Volume 03
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.21 (01) [E/German]

From: "heatherrendall at tiscali..co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>"  <
heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.20 (03) [A/D/E]

>>The distinction between such things as "rig" (Scots) and
"ridge" (English) is well-known, the "hard" sounds being Scandinavian
influences:

This is fascinating! One wouldn't connect this part of the world with
Scandinavian influence ..

Throughout Northern England actually, rather more so than Scotland in fact
(Danish/Norse place names become fewer as you cross the border from
Northumberland).

But there is evidence that the hard "g" and "k" in the North (seen in pairs
such as brig/bridge, ditch/dyke, kist/chest, kirk/church etc) was still a
feature of northern, Anglian dialects when the Scandinavians arrived,
whereas further south the Saxon/Jutish varieties had already mutated.  So
the Norse effect was as much a reinforcement as an introduction.

Paul Finlow-Bates
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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.21 (02) [E]

Beste allen,
Het West-Vlaams voor "rogge" (graangewas) is: rugge; ruggevéld: roggeveld.
Ik heb al enkele malen vermeld dat wij, net als in vele Zeeuwse dialecten,
en het Schots ("rig" heb ik begrepen) voor rug (lichaamsdeel) "rik" kennen.
'k Hén zair an me rik: ik heb rugpijn.
Een kleine zandbank voor de kust tussen Oostende en Wenduine heet: 't Riksje
van de Wangeloare (De Wandelaar was de naam gegeven aan een lichtschip, in
het Oostends "viersjhip" = vuurschip). Dat was dus de Rug van de Wandelaar.
Een lichtschip diende als baken in de zee, net als de boeien; hadden
zo'n boei een klok tot aandachtstrekking dan werd die bij ons "e bélleboeje"
genoemd.
Opletten: "e riksje" is in het West-Vlaams ook het verkleinwoord van "e
reke" (een rij); hieruit ook het werkwoord "rekenen" (rechnen).
Anderzijds naar aanleiding van burh, by, enz... :ik dacht dat de
Scandinavische "by" (stad), "landsby" (dorp) verwant zijn met "bo" (wonen),
met het Nederlands "bouwen"
en misschien nog verder (?) met (to) be, ben, bios, enz. Misschien kan
iemand van onze medetaallustigen hier verheldering brengen.
Toetnoasteki,
Roland Desnerck

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From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk" <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk" <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>

Ron wrote ( and muddied the waters even more!;-)))
 "Furthermore, could Rugg be derived from the surname (de) Rugge that came
in with large-scale "Flemish" immigration to Britain?"

Oh dear! yet another possible lead: we have direct evidence of Flemish
immigrants in this very place. A rent roll of 1477 detailing the rents of
Ruggehale (as the estate was known then) has Flemynges Heath and Flemynges
Wood in Wichenford!

We are not exactly sure at present where these were but we have located
another document about the lease of Fleming's wood in the Nottinghamshire
archives and we hope to go and read this one soon. If we are lucky it might
give us identifying detail.

So Yes we could be looking at what look like connected names Rugge / Rugg's
Place / Ridgend/ Pugh's Rough when in fact they are just co-incidentally
similar.

More grist into the thinking mill!

Brilliant - you lot!

best wishes

Heather

(Rendall)

PS recap

1262 the estate of Rugge is leased to William Habington

1280 the name de la Rugge appears in a lay subsidy roll: whether surname or
place name is not clear. Many of the other recognaisable names are place
names .... now.

1299 a whole list of people on a Bishop's rent roll are given as de la Rugge
both freeholder and bondsmen

Land from the Rugge estate is apportioned out to people

no records discovered yet for the 14th century

1477  Ruggehale yard is the estate name on another rent roll

Over the next 100 years as the estate is broken up and sold to various
people we have a sheaf of documents with any spelling you like to choose
from the usual Rugge  via Rugehale to Richalhide - the last after a new
portion of land called Hydes was bought and added to the whole.

The farm Rugg's Place is also known from 1660 onwards: called either Rugg's
Hole or Rugg's Place.

The farm Ridgend is known from early 16th century onwards. It was known as
Centleys for c 200 years before reverting to Ridgend.
Pughs Rough I only know for sure back to early 19th century - but this maybe
because I haven't located many documents for this area yet.
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