LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.22 (04) [D/E]

Mon Oct 22 23:23:35 UTC 2007

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  22 October 2007 - Volume 04
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (now - 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.22 (03) [D/E]

> From:  Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.21 (01) [E/German]

> >>The distinction between such things as "rig" (Scots) and
> "ridge" (English) is well-known, the "hard" sounds being Scandinavian
> influences:
>
>
> This is fascinating! One wouldn't connect this part of the world with
> Scandinavian influence ..

I realise you're talking from the perspective of historical migration,
but more pragmatically, I suppose anywhere with a river could be subject
to assorted Norse intrusions.

Now I'm going from distant memory and local legend, though no doubt the
subject could be firmed up a bit with some web research if you're really
interested...

Here in Somerset, there are various rivers running from far inland to
the coast, many of which are important as part of the drainage system
without which much of the county would be underwater or swampy. I
remember reading that in one of the Sagas, a fleet of Viking longships
came down one river in this area (the Parrett, is the biggest, I think,
so possibly that), and never came back.

Interestingly there's a corresponding local legend about a fleet of
longships that came down the Parrett and while the Norsemen were all
ashore spreading terror amongst the populace, one old woman took
advantage of her inconspicuousness by walking quietly along the shore
cutting all the ropes that held the boats. The Norsemen, finding
themselves marooned, took stock of their options: some surrendered and
were assimilated, those who wouldn't see reason were left alone to
become lost and drowned in the vast swamplands.

This, and various other incursions, is said to explain the presence of
Norse words in Saxon dialects of the west of England. For example, as
someone pointed out on the list recently, the pronunciation of
"house/hause" is fairly consistent across dialects from German to
English, but in Scots it's "hoose" /hus/ because of Norse influence. In
Somerset dialects, this is "huish" (such as "Huish Epsicopi" (Bishop's
House), near Yeovil, and "Huish Park" (the Yeovil football ground).

Huish... OK, could be Flemish  :)

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Genitive (possessive) "'s" in place names (always?) involves proper
> names (including titles and places, the latter especially churches and
> parishes), such as the following in England alone:
>
> Abbot's Bromley, Barnard's Inn, Barnard's Inn, Bicester King's End,
> Bigge's Quarter, Bishop's Castle, Bishop's Caundle, Bishop's Cleeve,

I don't think this sort of thing is normally written with the
apostrophe, however. Certainly, "Bishops Caundle", near where I live,
wouldn't be.

What about "Lands End"! The exception that tests the rule?

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.22 (03) [D/E]

Aha... so the Jutes themselves were no Scandinavians yet, unlike their
present day descendants? Were the old Jutish Ingvaeonic West Germanics,
closely related to Anglians, Frisians and Saxons?
Btw present day Jutish of Jutland, Denmark, like Norwegian and Swedish,
but unlike the standard Danish of its home country, also has soft kj and gj

Ingmar

Paul Finlow-Bates schreef:

Throughout Northern England actually, rather more so than Scotland in fact
(Danish/Norse place names become fewer as you cross the border from
Northumberland).

But there is evidence that the hard "g" and "k" in the North (seen in pairs
such as brig/bridge, ditch/dyke, kist/chest, kirk/church etc) was still a
feature of northern, Anglian dialects when the Scandinavians arrived,
whereas further south the Saxon/Jutish varieties had already mutated.  So
the Norse effect was as much a reinforcement as an introduction.

----------

From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.22 (03) [D/E]

From: Roland Desnerck < desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.21 (02) [E]
[...]
 Anderzijds naar aanleiding van burh, by, enz... :ik dacht dat de
Scandinavische "by" (stad), "landsby" (dorp) verwant zijn met "bo" (wonen),
met het Nederlands "bouwen"
en misschien nog verder (?) met (to) be, ben, bios, enz. Misschien kan
iemand van onze medetaallustigen hier verheldering brengen.
Toetnoasteki,
Roland Desnerck

Roland,

Het enthousiasme kent bij jou weer geen grenzen.
Ik weet dat 'boer'  enz. ooit wel in verband zijn gebracht met 'ben' [van
het werkwoord zijn], maar deze persoon weet toch niet wat hij daarvan moet
denken.

'Ben' is wel leuk; want ons werkwoordparadigma  'zijn' bestaat uit meerdere
stammen:
'zijn' [hierbij: is]; 'wezen' [hierbij: waren];  'ben' en dit hoort in de
stamfamilie van ondermeer het latijnse fui [ perfectum bij: esse].

Ik hoop altijd van dialecten te horen waar ook van nog andere stammen
gebruikt worden gemaakt.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Sandy! You wrote:

I don't think this sort of thing is normally written with the
apostrophe, however. Certainly, "Bishops Caundle", near where I live,
wouldn't be.

I limited the examples to names that in the official spelling do have an
apostrophe in it. There were those that in the official spelling did not
have one, and I omitted those. I looked them up in government lists.

As for the Caundle, see here as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop%27s_Caundle
http://www.imagesofdorset.org.uk/Dorset/031/intro.htm
http://www.city-visitor.com/bishopscaundle/index.html
http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=359905

What people do in real life is another thing, of course.

What about "Lands End"! The exception that tests the rule?

Actually, it's officially spelled "Land's End" (Cornish *Penn an Wlas*),
though many people spell it without the apostrophe.

E.g.,
http://www.cornwalltour.co.uk/landsend.html
http://www.cornwall-online.co.uk/attractions/lands-end/Welcome.html
http://www.landsend-landmark.co.uk/
http://www.britainexpress.com/counties/cornwall/az/lands-end.htm
http://www.islesofscilly-travel.co.uk/leq/index.htm

Theo over Roland:

Het enthousiasme kent bij jou weer geen grenzen.

Ja, en daarom houden de Grote Kahoena en ik bijzonders van hem. Ontmoedig
onze Roland niet! Anders zal ik dicht bij de grens een vroeg, heel groot
Paasvuur bestellen.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

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