LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.14 (02) [D/E/V]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 14 April 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at mhsc.org.za>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (07) [E]

Hi all,

I hear the same here in SA, Ingmar, but believe it relates more to a speaker
not being absolutely fluent in your tongue than it relates to that person's
tongue necessarily having a 'system of confirmation'.

Diederik, is it possible that the 'Yes' or 'No' reply by West Flemish
speakers could mean brusqueness rather than anything else?

Elsie
 *Subject:*LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (07) [E]
From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: Culture related language use

I noticed something interesting, the different way of replying to some
questions by speakers of many non-European languages. I know a lot of
people with African (Guinea, Sierra Leone, Congo, Angola etc), Middle East
(Arab, Irani, Afghani etc) and Far East (Chinese, Vietnamese) backgrounds.
If they are asked e.g. "Didn't you go to work today?" and they
answer "Yes", this means "No, I didn't go to work". This often leads to
confusion, because a Dutchman or other European would say "No",
meaning "No, I didn't go to work". So they just confirm the
question, "yes" means "you're right, it's true what you asked", whereas
Europeans would say "no" i.e. "the action you're asking about is negative".
On the other hand, when asked "did you go to work today" and they did not,
both will answer "No."
I'm curious if there are European languages too with the confirming
system, and whether there is a difference between Indo-European languages
and other, how languages like Hindi etc. handle this which are I E but
from outside Europe

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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (07) [E]

 Beste Ron, Diederik en alle andere taalvorsers,
In het West-Vlaams kennen we inderdaad - tot verbazing van Antwerpenaars en
Limburgers - een "neen" waar de anderen "ja" zeggen.
Dit is nochtans enkel het geval na een vraag waarin "mo" (maar) komt:
En hé je gie mo twi oogn? Nin'k!
Heb je maar twee ogen? Neen (ik)
En hét hen hie mo tien joengers. Nainhen! Twi knéchtjoengers én acht
méjsjoengers!
Heeft hij slechts tien kinderen? Neen (hij)! Twee jongens en acht meisjes!
En zie je giender mo gister gewist? Nainme!
Zijn jullie slechts gisteren geweest? Neen (wij)!
Toetnoasteki.
Roland Desnerck

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (03) [E]

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: Culture related language use

I noticed something interesting, the different way of replying to some
questions by speakers of many non-European languages. I know a lot of
people with African (Guinea, Sierra Leone, Congo, Angola etc), Middle East
(Arab, Irani, Afghani etc) and Far East (Chinese, Vietnamese) backgrounds.
If they are asked e.g. "Didn't you go to work today?" and they
answer "Yes", this means "No, I didn't go to work". This often leads to
confusion, because a Dutchman or other European would say "No",
meaning "No, I didn't go to work". So they just confirm the
question, "yes" means "you're right, it's true what you asked", whereas
Europeans would say "no" i.e. "the action you're asking about is negative".

Ingmar

That's one of the first traps you learn to avoid in Papua New Guinea when
learning Tok Pisin. The other lingua franca, Motu, has the same
construction, as I believe do many Austronesian and other Oceanic
languages.  In fact, I wonder if the European way of reinforcing the
negative rather than affirming it might be a minority case (in terms of
numbers of languages, not speakers).

Paul Finlow-Bates

----------

From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.04.13 (03) [E]

Ingmar  is curious:

> how languages like Hindi etc. handle this which are I E but
> from outside Europe.


Indic languages geenrally use the "confirming" system:

He didn't go home (did he)?
Yes, he didn't go home
No, he went home.

MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक || માઈક || ਮਾਈਕ
================
Dr Michael W Morgan
Managing Director
Ishara Foundation
Mumbai (Bombay), India
++++++++++++++++
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )
++++++++++++++++
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド
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