LL-L "Names" 2008.04.30 (01) [E]

Wed Apr 30 16:16:05 UTC 2008

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L O W L A N D S - L - 30 April 2008 - Volume 01
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From: G TIGHE <tighe at sympatico.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.29 (02) [E]

From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.04.29 (01) [E]

Peter wrote: "I have heard Bayzl but only on television shows from the US."

Right.  Around these parts (Texas) we would pronounce the herb and the
proper name the same way, i.e., BAYzl.  My sis-in-law and her husband attend
a Roman Catholic church in Houston which is affiliated with the Basilican
Brothers.  They call the saint associated with that order BAYzl.

Mark Brooks

Greetings from London Ontario

In Toronto the Basilican Brothers worship at St Basil's Church on Bay St.
My late uncle(a scot like myself) attended there for many years and always
pronounced  it with a soft 'a' is in 'bath'.  With respect 'basil' that
rymes with 'hazel '
crunches in the ear. Also, the 'baysball' season is not yet upon us.

kind regards

Gerald Tighe

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From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.29 (03) [E]

Dear Gael, Luc. Ron and the rest,

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Names"

"Wonder how the herb fits into this?"

The OED quotes the herb as "basilicon" in the English of 1420 and "basil"
from 1562, having come through Latin and French from the Greek βασιλικòν
meaning "royal", presumably because the royals could obtain it in industrial
quantities. But the Greek word for king came from βασις and λεω, in other
words, the king is the "stay of the people". Thus, the name came long before
any Christian saint.

Modern French = basilic

Spanish = albahaca, straight from Arabic
Italian = basilico (and do they ever use it, as do I!)
German = Basilikum (according to Duden "wegen des edles, würziges Duftes)

Incidentally, in my quirky northern New York dialect I say "base-ssil" for
both the given name and the herb.

Jorge Potter

---------

From: Kevin and Cheryl Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.29 (03) [E]

I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure "Standard American" is

herb: bay-zil

name: Bay-zil, er, I mean Bazzle, uh, whatever

My experience is pretty much the same as Mike Morgan's, below.  I would add
that it's pretty easy to remember how to pronounce Basil Rathbone, since the
vowels are the same. By the same token, I think that most Americans would
call the church on Red Square in Moscow "Saint Bay-zil's Cathedral," again
making the vowels the same in "saint" and "basil."

As for the list of names that Ron gives below, Amanda is fairly common in
the US and I for one wouldn't associate it with Britain, and Duncan is quite
familiar too, but usually as a surname.  One famous Duncan is Duncan Hines,
founder of the company that makes cake mixes and other baking products.

Kevin Caldwell
From: Stan Levinson <stlev99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.28 (01) [E]

I'm pretty sure "Standard American" is
name: Bay-zil
herb: bazzle
That's how I've always heard it.
Stan

----------

From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.28 (01) [E]

re: the name Basil as well as the herb, I am NOT sure that REAL
Americans were familiar with either. And by REAL Americans I mean, of
course, the folks down home (as opposed to BACK home) when I was
growing up (though of course, being a military brat, I was only ever
down home for 2 weeks in the summer). (Down home, iffn ya'll don't
remember, is Ferrum, Virginia (mom's side of the family) and Davy,
West Virginia (dad's side))

I doubt seriously if I ever tasted or saw or heard of the herb till my
late teens (meaning the early-to-mid 1970's ... and YES, once we
Americans took to that tasty foreign herb I have NEVER heard it
referred to by Americans as anything other than BAY-zl).

As for the NAME, Basil is NOT a particularly American name, and so the
ONLY person by that name that I ever heard mention of growing up was
Basil Rathbones, the South African-turned-Hollywood actor, famous for
a number of movies in the 1930's (LONG before MY time!) and known to
ME and my ilk for his role as Sherlock Holmes, opposite Nigel Bruce's
Dr Watson. And HIS name was always pronounced Bazzl. Maybe that is
because he was a foreigner ... indeed as I said I can't rightly say
HOW Americans of my parent's generation pronounced either, because
they probably never HEARD of either.

AT home ... in Bombay.

MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक  || માઈક || ਮਾਈਕ
================
Dr Michael W Morgan
Managing Director
Ishara Foundation
Mumbai (Bombay), India
++++++++++++++++
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )
++++++++++++++++
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Hmmm ... I suppose certain English names are fairly rare in the US and more
educated Americans associate them with Britain, such as also Amanda, Cyril,
Duncan, Emma, Gemma, Gordon, Graham, Neville, Nigel, Nola, Penelope, Simon,
...

I do find it interesting that in Britain names are used that go back to
Byzanthium, names whose equivalents are mostly used in Orthodox Christian
regions:

Greek Βασίλειος (*Vasíleios *"kingly one") > Basil (e.g., Russian Василий *
Vasilij*)
Greek Κύριλλος (*Kýrillos *"lordly one") > Cyril (e.g., Russian Кирилл *
Kirill*)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Names

Hey, Gerald in the other London! It's great to hear from you again. It's
been a while.

You wrote:

My late uncle(a scot like myself) attended there for many years and always
pronounced  it with a soft 'a' is in 'bath'.

All right, folks. But don't try this at home if you're speakers of Southern
England English!

And, Luc, Low Saxon of Germany has interesting names for basil the herb:

*Bruunsilk* [ˈbruːnzɪˑlk] (["bru:nzI:\lk])
*Bruunsilken* [ˈbruːnzɪˑlkŋ̩]   (["bru:nzI:\lkN=])
*Brummsilk* [ˈbrʊˑmzɪˑlk] (["brU:\mzI:\lk])

I assume these are "weird" derivations from *Basilikum*.

And Jorge, *Basilikum* is the more "elevated" German name, nowadays the
predominant one in most circles. A more traditional version is *
Basilienkraut*, *Kraut* meaning 'plant', 'herb'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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