LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.30 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 30 August 2008 - Volume 02

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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>

Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2008.08.30 (01) [E]



Dear Reinhard,



I have never heard "Er is tot geblieben". In High German and Missingsch,
this would sound very strange, as if some contrasting case of a resurrection
was kept in brackets: "(Der is wieder lebendig geworden, aber) der is tot
geblieben." In Platt this thought has never occurred to me, but in
Missingsch it would. In Platt, I would instinctively write "doodblieven" un
"doodbleven" in one word, indicating the difference to not resurrecting
("dood bleven"). -- Ordinarily Missingsch speakers say "tot gegangen". Do
you think that is derived from Platt "mit'n Dood afgahn"? I think it is
derived from "kaputt gegangen", "verschütt gegangen" -- expressions that
indicate a process (towards a deplorable condition ;-))



Gröten!



Marlou



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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Idiomatica



Thanks, Marlou.



Ordinarily Missingsch speakers say "tot gegangen". Do you think that is
derived from Platt "mit'n Dood afgahn"?



No.



I think it is derived from "kaputt gegangen", "verschütt gegangen"



I consider this most likely.



One of the reasons why I am interested in these expressions is that they
remind me very much of the use of certain verbs in the Altaic, especially
Turkic languages. (Not that I think there's a direct link, though.) Among
the Turkic ones are *qal-* ("to remain"), *kät-* ("to go") and *tart-* ("to
drag (into)") which as ordinary or auxiliary verbs come to connote resulting
permanent or temporary states, each with different shades of meaning.



Regards,

Reinhard/Ron



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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica"



Beste Ron,



You wrote:



    Has any of you ever encountered the Missingsch phrase /tot bleiben/? If
so, what variety is it?



Is it not by accident in use among people who (strongly) believe in
resurrection? "Bleiben" seems to suggest that one thinks you can also be
dead and become alive again.



Kind greetings,



Luc Hellinckx
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