LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.02 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  29 January 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Gary Davenport <gldavenport at student.ysu.edu>
Subject: etymology - wife

Lowlanders,
Thanks for your responses regarding *wife *and its cognates! They proved
interesting and helpful, especially so Luc's scan -- I was researching *wife
*'s etymology and use of its cognates in Germanic languages for a paper.

Best regards,
Gary

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From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.01 (08) [E]

On 02/02/2008, at 2:11 PM, R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: Etymology

Joachim and I wrote:

I wrote earlier:

*Mank* < *mang* is used all over the language and is related to English
"among" and German *Menge*, also Low Saxon *mengeln*and *mengeleyren* 'to
mix'. It goes back to Indo-European **men(e)gh* ~ **mon(e)gh* 'plenty',
'bountiful', 'provide (bountifully)', also appears to be related to the
group "many," German *manch*, Low Saxon *mennig*, etc. It is -- and now pay
attention! -- also related to Old Saxon *mangon* 'to deal (with)', 'to
trade', 'to barter',

Interestingly enough in Lowland Scots in at least the Lothian area the word
"MANKY" refers to something
that is stale, somewhat off, or inedible.
eg That picktchur (movie) wiz manky.
See him, stey away frae 'is shoap, 'is fush is manky.
Jeannie's boy friend is right manky.

 Can this be connected with the state of old trade goods ?
Unlikely but.....

Regards

Tom Mc Rae

Brisbane Australia

Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us

Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us

Robert Burns

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Interesting, that word "manky," Tom. The *Oxford English Dictionary* isn't
sure about it. It suggests links, among others, with "to mank" (mostly
Scots) < Middle Dutch *manken* 'to injure', 'to weaken', 'to harm' <
post-classical Latin *mancare* 'to mutilate' < Classical Latin
*mancus*'mutilated', 'crippled', 'deficient'.

This this is related to the German word *Manko* 'deficit', which is one of
those Italian banking terminology loans, coming from *manco* 'deficiency',
'deficit'. This *Manko* is attested only since the 18th century.

But then we have German *Mangel* 'lack', 'deficiency' and the corresponding
verb *mangeln* 'to lack', 'to be deficient', also *mangelhaft* 'lacking',
'deficient', and *bemängeln* 'to criticize'. The thing is that *mangeln* can
be traced back to Old German *mangelōn*. This precedes all of the above and
has not been explained. I wonder if there *is* a link on an Indo-European
level. Gerhard Köbler suggests Indo-European **men-* 'small', 'reduced'. And
then there is Indo-European **menk-* with similar meanings, probably a
derivation.

Back to rutabagas/swedes ...

I wrote:

I suspect these older Scandinavian words for swedes/rutabagas (e.g., *
rotabagge* in Gotlandic (*Gotländska mål*)) contain the words for 'root'
(Old Norse *rót*) and for 'bacon' (Old North *baka* 'cheek', 'buttock',
'bacon', cf. Low Saxon *Back*, German *Backe* 'buttock', 'cheek', related to
English "back," all from Indo-European **bheg-* 'to bulge', 'to be
rounded'). So, because of their consistency that reminds you of fat,
swedes/rutabagas may have been the bacon of lean times.

We have to remind ourselves that the intake of fat was very important in
earlier Northern Europe. People craved anything of animal fat consistency.

Compare this to names I mentioned earlier:

Low Saxon *Wruck*, *Ramanke*, *Rutabaga*, *Smultrööv'*, etc

*Smultrööv'* (*smultroyv'* "lard turnip") 'swede', 'rutabaga'

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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