LL-L "Language and identity" 2008.02.15 (05) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 15 February 2008 - Volume 05
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From: Ronald Veenker <veenker at atmc.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.15 (01) [E]

On Friday, February 15, 2008, at 01:38  PM, Lowlands-L List wrote:

> P.S.: I wonder why Americans of Eastern Friesland background like to
> call themselves by the German-derived name Ostfries, not even by the
> native Low Saxon name Oostfrees, leave alone perfectly fine English
> "East Frisian" or "Eastern Friesland ..." What is it with them? Hello!

I'm glad you brought that up, Ron.  I've never thought critically about
before.  I think that I use the German Ostfries because that is how my
mother-in-law Esther Dreesman made the reference in formal speech.  In
casual speech they used the shortened "doots."  Some would say
"plaadoots."  The children of Lyon County Iowa in the late 19th and
early 20th century learned and spoke high German in the elementary and
high schools.  I am unsure of just what role English played.  If I
recall correctly it hasn't been all that long ago that Frisian was
forbidden in the Netherlands school system.  Thank you for raising the
issue; it makes me work hard to recall my younger years.

Ron Veenker

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language and identity

Hey again, Ron!

I had no doubt you got it from the American "Ostfriesen" crowd. I am quite
familiar with it. I suspect that their ancestors associated with German
immigrants, and they were not aware of the (admittedly rarely used) English
equivalent "East Frisian."

To some, including myself, the use of "Ostfriesen" in English comes across
as "clubbish." East Frisians are not without reason stereotyped as being
"different," independent-minded, certainly proud of their heritage, and use
of this German-derived "Ostfriesen" symbolically flies right in the face of
this reputation.

Just to make sure we're on the same page:

The traditional language of Eastern Friesland is *Low Saxon*, which was
imposed in the late Middle Ages. These dialects have obvious Frisian
substrata, i.e., a remnant base left behind by the actual East Frisian
language that was once used there and that only survived in Saterland, a
Catholic enclave outside the region. I would go as far as generalizing that
the traditional people of Eastern Friesland are ethnic and cultural Frisians
that have lost their Frisian language and now use frisianized Low Saxon as a
symbol of their identity. This may also explain why they tend to emphasize
their separateness within the community of Low Saxon speakers. The same
ought to apply to speakers of highly frisianized Groningen Low Saxon.
However, few of them seem to have embraced their Frisian heritage and
identity. This is most likely due to a need to set themselves apart from
actual Frisian speakers in neighboring Fryslân and adjacent areas of
Groningen.

Prohibiting the use of minority and regional languages used to be common
practice all over Europe. It only changed recently but is now of course only
permissible in specially designated parts of the curricula. The commonly
used excuse used to be that those were not real languages or were inferior
to whatever happens to be the power language. In the 20th century, many
schools tentatively made allowances for them within the strict confines of
local or regional history and culture studies. They were never actually
taught, unless they had a "homeland" in which they were power languages (e.g.,
Danish in Germany, German in Italy, Finnish in Sweden, Dutch in border
regions of Germany, Hungarian in Croatia). Heaven helped those that survived
without having any official "homelands," e.g., Low Saxon, Scots, Gaelic,
Limburgish, Scanian, Jamtlandish, Kashubian, Rusyn, Sorbian, Occitan,
Breton, Galician, Livonian, Karaim, Gagauz, Romany, ...)!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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