LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (04) [E]

Fri Feb 29 15:56:51 UTC 2008

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 29 February 2008 - Volume 04
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From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.28 (02) [E]

Hey Lowlands brahs an titas , Namaskar!

Okay, here in Bombay -- oops, sorry Mumbai; don't want to be politically
incorrect (though being historically incorrect seems to be quite okay!), as
there were riots here recently, directed this time against fellow Indians
from northern parts (UP and Bihar), and Maratha sensitivities seem to be
very touchy ... don't know if there are any Thackeray's on the list, but, if
so, hope they are NOT respelled Thakare's!

Okay, I have been WAY too busy to follow each and every LOWLANDS-List
message (shame on me!); they are however saved in a folder for when I DO get
the time. And since today I am sick (nothing serious, just a light flu or
some such bug), I thought I would "treat" myself. SO, I am taking an hour
maybe and reading recent LOWLANDS List mailings, and then later another hour
and reading recent SIOUAN List mailings (my TWO favorite lists, perhaps for
similar reasons!)

The second one I opened had Ron's notes on the etymology of enclosures
(German *Zaun* 'fence', Low Saxon *Tuun* 'fence' ~ 'garden', Dutch
*toen*'garden', but Scots
*toon* 'town', English "*town*" etc, and he mentioned a similar etymological
link between "thing enclosing" (cf English verb gird from the related IE
verbal root **gherdh-*) and "thing enclosed" (English "yard" and related
"garden"). The same IE *ĝhordo- "woven branches (for fencing)" we have for
yard and garden (and also Welsh *garth* "pen, fold") is in fact the root for
Common Slavic *gard, which through metathesis etc gives all the *grad*'s and
*gorod*'s we maybe are familair with (from Russian Lenin*grad*, Nov*gorod*,
and Ukrainian Kirovo*hrad* (Кірово*град*) and Polish Biało*gard*, Wyszo*gród
* in the north, to Bulgarian Blagoev*grad* and Serbian Beo*grad* (Bel*grade*)
in the south. AND, lest we forget an all important element in this
etymology: English vine*yard*, Dutch wijn*gaard*, Swedish: vin*gård*,
Icelandic vín*garð*ur, etc are exact cognates with Russian вино*град*ник
"vineyard", Slovene vino*grad* -dittto-... and lest we forget one section of
both Praha (Prague) and Bratislawa is called Vino*hrad*y "vineyards"!

again, namaskar!

MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक

================

Dr Michael W Morgan
Managing Director
Ishara Foundation
Mumbai (Bombay), India

++++++++++++++++

माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )

++++++++++++++++

茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド

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From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.22 (04) [E]

Dear Ron and Lowlanders,

You wrote:

I guess one is tempted to ask what this says about me and my ancestors. But
I happen to know that my paternal grandfather, conceived in Eastern Prussia,
got the surname Hahn by way of adoption in Holstein. So I'm not a Hahn by
blood.

Since High German is the only language I have ever studied formally, I
always thought that your surname was "Rooster". In part for this reason, I
have been fascinated by the recent discussion of the forms of *haag*, *hedge
*, etc in the various Lowlands varieties. And of all the names of members
that have written in over the last couple of months.

In this list I think I know the meaning of a few, but even then can never be
sure. Some are really fascinating. It would be amazing if a Denkers clan
could develop from one person given to thinking things through, or the
Zinssers from somebody who always went about making sense.

Member Dreyer isn't in the OED, but *drayer*, *dreyman* and *drayman* are,
all meaning a carter. Not a word in my Dutch and German dictionaries. A name
ending in "-gren" could come from the same root as in Dutch *grens*. The
first and last stems in Roerdinkholder are obvious, but I can't find the
middle one.

Basil Cottle traces Potter to Old English and considers it an occupational
name, though it's well known that many Smiths, Potters, etc., merely lived
near a pottery or smithy, rather than working at it themselves. OED traces
the first use of the word *potter* to 1100. Interestingly, Le Petit Robert
traces the first use of *potier *to 1120, and our family always said we went
back to the Normans for no reason known to me.

The ending on Hellinckx makes me wonder if it's a genitive. The borough in
New York City now called "the Bronx" was actually Mr. Bronck's farm. Masure
and de Fries certainly sound ethnic. Visscher and Meiboom sound obvious, but
who knows?

   Bas

Becker

Bloomgren

Brandsma

Bronemann

Buck

Bungenburg

Clarke

Davenport

de Fries

de Jong

Denkers

Desnerck

Dreesman

Dreyer

Dujardin

Evenhuis

Finlow-Bates

Fonken

Hellinckx

Homan

Hülsey

Kreimer

Lessing

Like

Masure

Mc Rae

Meibohm = Meiboom

Onsman

Parish

Potter

Raidt

Rendall

Rodenburg

Roerdinkholder

Simpson

Strunk

Thijs

Tietz

van Brederode

van Woerkom

Veenker

Verhoft

Victorie

Visscher

Ward

Wintzer

Woltman

Zinsser

Zweep

I could go on forever, imagining what every name means…but, is it possible
that any of you would be moved to explain online what your names really
mean?

Lost in Puerto Rico,

Jorge Potter

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Mike and Jorge! It's great to hear from both of you for a change.

Jorge, I'm holding my little tongue (or fingers, as it were) regarding the
origin of the names.

I just wanted to let you know that your name has three basic equivalents in
Germany:

   - Eastern German: *Töpfer* (cf. German *Topf* 'pot')
   - Southern German: *Hafner* ~ *Haffner* ~ *Häffner *~ *Heffner (cf.
   Hafen** ~ Haffe *'(clay) pot')
   - Low Saxon: *P**ötter* (cf. *Pott* 'pot')

Occurring more rarely are surnames based on other old German words for
'potter'; e.g.,

   - *Düppenbäcke*r ~ *Döppe**r *(mostly in the Rhine region)
   - *Krugbäcker*
   - *Kannenbäcker*
   - *Auler* ~ *Äuler* ~ *Euler*

Nice to see that your tables came through, at least in HTML mode. Let's hope
they'll survive the server distribution process.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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