LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.08 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 January 2008 - Volume 03
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From: foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.08 (01) [E]

*Heather wrote*:

'scuse me! Have I become invisible all of a sudden?  Have I changed gender?

That was me 'wot wrote that'!

Heather (miffed)

My apologies Heather,

    I'm just now beginning to understand that multiple posts can come in the
same email.  Paul's name was at the top of the email, so I assumed him to be
author of those words.  Today, that email reads much differently to me.  I'm
feeling very far away from the action being as I last visited Germany,
Holland, and the UK last in 1978 on my way between my Pakistani home and my
caretaking grandparents in the US.  Europe has always been a fly-by
encounter for me. I'm enjoying the opportunity for more in-depth discussion.
I need all the feedback I can get.

*Heather then wrote*:

…And anyone else is left floundering - filing thro' their mental vocabulary
for 'soundex' vocabulary.

Just like most of us when listening to the lyrics of modern songs or small
children when singing hymns/prayers using vocabulary that is not part of
their environment's language.  …"Our Father which art in heaven èHarold be
Thy name ....."

   You're right that kids help us to revisit our traditions.  Honest
mistakes become opportunities to bridge the gaps and go deeper.  I was
studying German in those early traveling years and came home (to my
grandfather's farm in Nebraska-USA) after passing the third semester German
exams. So naturally, I tried to practice with my grandfather.  That was the
first time I experienced the difference between Hoch and Platte. He refused
to talk with me in Hoch Deutsch and told me flatly that it wasn't "our
language". I had no clue and wanted very much to share our "Germanness"
together. Since he was born in the US, perhaps he simply couldn't speak it;
but at the time, what I picked up was a more emotional sense of difference.
That silenced me.  I lost my last chance to learn from him about all that
went on way back when.  Remembering the past is a complicated and often
precarious process. Everyone has something to contribute.

*Theo Homan wrote on* the "hearing and reading" skills of foreigners:

…In the years I was reading icelandic manuscripts [hundreds and hundreds of
them] I more than once did better than the icelanders had done, because
-when  reading- their engine of possible meanings was at work before they
had seen what was written, and the simple me had to read very exactly [the
dirty pages]…

Dialogue in the real world is often like the seemingly aimless paths that
rabbits make in a snowy meadow when the grass is all covered up.  When we
finally all have our fill, it will be interesting to see what the topic
headings will be.

Happy Tuesday for now,

Gael (Gabby in Spanish)
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi, Gael!

As for miffing Ze Hezzer (and, no, we don't like having miffed Hezzers
around here), don't worry! We'll whip you into shape soon enough. ;-)

In the meantime, reading the rules may help: http://lowlands-l.net/rules.php

Kudos to you for having gotten your feet wet right after joining! The Kahuna
has been watching you and likes what he sees. (
http://lowlands-l.net/treasures/kahuna.htm)

You wrote:

That was the first time I experienced the difference between Hoch and
Platte. He refused to talk with me in Hoch Deutsch and told me flatly that
it wasn't "our language". I had no clue and wanted very much to share our
"Germanness" together. Since he was born in the US, perhaps he simply
couldn't speak it; but at the time, what I picked up was a more emotional
sense of difference. That silenced me.  I lost my last chance to learn from
him about all that went on way back when.  Remembering the past is a
complicated and often precarious process. Everyone has something to
contribute.

Yippee! I've heard a lot of rumors about this, but so far all reports were
second- and third-hand. I need to hear more, so I hope you don't mind me
grilling you on this once in a while.

While Low Saxon speakers that stayed in Germany had no choice, and even the
staunchest among them eventually succumbed to Germanization and to the myth
that "Platt" is a German dialect group, those that left for the "New" World
did have a choice (and I wonder if some of them emigrated for this reason).
I am told that especially many of those that emigrated with other Low Saxon
speakers or congregated with them overseas tended to end up with Low Saxon
alongside English, often without German playing any role. It was only in
communities in which there was a predominance of German speakers and German
served as prestige and church language that Low Saxon vanished. Apparently
whole villages or parts of villages came to be transplanted across the
Atlantic, especially many from what is now Schleswig-Holstein, historically
the least German-loyal state, having been under Danish rule for quite some
time.

It is this way that American-specific dialects of Low Saxon were able to
develop, some of them since way back in the early part of the 19th century,
if not even earlier. The language was strong enough at one time that even
American Low Saxon literature began to emerge, producing American patriotic
songs among other things.

(http://lowlands-l.net/groth/chicago.htm)

The American/Schleswig-Holstein Heritage Society is a great resource:
http://lowlands-l.net/plattewelt/platt-namerica.htm#ASHHS

Other organizations:
http://lowlands-l.net/plattewelt/platt-namerica.htm

Gael, I started a fundamental reference grammar some time ago:
http://lowlands-l.net/grammar/

I am currently reworking and extending it. Eventually there will be sounds
and lessons as well.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron
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