LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.12 (05) [A/E]

Mon Jan 14 07:25:21 UTC 2008

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  13 January 2008 - Volume 05
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From: Paul Tatum <ptatum at blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.13 (03) [E]

Hello Lowlanders,
       I read a small piece in the Sunday Observer (UK) today concerning
efforts to preserve and promote Guernsiais, which has only 1300 speakers
left, which represents 2% of the population.

Paul Tatum.

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From: Maria Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: ? Language origins ?

Hi all,

Ria, you are misinformed about Afrikaans being an European language, despite
its lexicon. I quote from Giliomee who says:  (See
http://web.uct.ac.za/depts/praesa/OPaper14.PDF)
"Heinz Kloss observed in 1977: 'Unless we consider Arabic an African tongue
... Afrikaans is the only non-European/non-Asiatic language to have attained
full university status and to be used in all branches of life and learning
... All other university languages have their main basis in either Europe or
Asia.' He added: 'There is a strong likelihood that of the new university
languages outside Europe (new ones as against old ones such as Japanese,
Arabic or Chinese) only Hindi, used by some 250 million speakers, Indonesian
by 100 million speakers, and Hebrew match the development of Afrikaans."

Elsie Zinsser

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.13 (03) [E]

 Beste Ria:

Onderwerp: LL-L "Language education." (Ron please read the letter first.)

Nou laat jy my beginne kook. Afrikaans het wel 'n Afrikase oorsprong, uit
Afrikabodem, en beeien selfs 'n Afrika-naam, die eerste ter tale wat
sodanige benoeming en identifikasie dra - en met reg.

Ek roep die Kaapse Hollandse gowerneurs op 'n streep ter getuienis dat dit
beslis nie die 'Vaderlandstaal' is nie. Hulle sou weet. Die Kompagnie
het skole selfs vir die slawe op eie onkoste gestig om die skoliere in *
Nederlands* op te voed, ter bekamping van die Kolonie se moontlike ondergang
in 'n 'plaaslike' patois..

Ja, wel: Afrikaans het 'n oorsprong in 'Dutch' (jou woord). En Engels het 'n
oorsprong in Oud Angeln aan die Noordwes kus van die vasteland Europa. Dit
maak nie van Engels 'n indringertaal in die Verenigde Koninkryk nie. Net so
maak ons geskiedenis nie van Afrikaans 'n indringertaal op hierdie vasteland
nie; en dit, teen alle weerspreke, is *eintlik* die saak in die gesprek.

Om uit te brei, nie een van die ander amptelike tale het hulle oorsprong
binne-in die grense van ons heidige Republiek nie: Nie een nie. Noem hulle
maar. Ek buk my hoof vir daardie dierbare volk die Boesmans en hulle tale,
die /kam-ka !ke, die /auni, die /nu //en, die //k'au //en, die !kung, die
!ku, die Hei //um, en die eienaardige Naron, se nou niks van die menige Nama
nasies en hulle tale nie, nie een van wie in ons amptelike taallys voorkom
nie. Elke taal op die lys is deur koloniale volkere ingedring, en nie een
van hulle kan op enige grond van prioriteit of selfs oorheersing aanspraak
maak nie.

Ja, politieke oormag: Laat maar vaar.

Aan die ander kant geniet persoonlike belange voorrang in die huidige
skoliere se eie prioriteite. Hier ontwikkel lankal klagte uit amptelike
kringe in verleentheid oor die Swart leerlinge se voorkeur vir Afrikaans as
tweede taal pleks van enige ander 'Afrika taal' in die kursuslys (om
verskeie redes, onder ander die beskikbaarheid van onderwysers, en dit is
wel makliker). Ja, en Engels geniet wel voorkeur as eerste taal, te danke
aan internasionale 'street cred'. Hulle wil ook mos 'kool' wees. Die
moeilikheid is soos jy wel verwys, oordrag van die opvoeding in 'n taal wat
eerstens deur die student kwalik verstaan is, en tweedens deur die
onderwyser.

Raar maar waar; die enigste plaaslike bevolkingsgroep waarin 'n beroeping
tot die onderwys nog bestaan, is die Afrikaner.
.
Afrikaans is in the real sense not of African origin. It originated from
Dutch.  Jan van Riebeeck arrived here in South Africa in 1652 with the Dutch
language.  Afrikaans originated from Dutch and transformed over time into
what is today termed as Afrikaans.  We have 11 official languages today and
of these 11 Afrikaans and English are recognized as the two official
languages.

Its a pity though that black pupils don't really enjoy learning subject in
their home language. English is use instead.  There is a big demand by black
pupils to learn subjects at school in their own language but the government
persist that they learn English instead, this of course bring about lots of
difficulty in understanding subjects such as mathematics, science just to
name a few.

[subscribed as Owen Noome]

Onse Ron; lees aub hierde uitgebraakde gal deur, an as dit te bitsig is
skraap maar. Jammer dat ek op jou en op Ria 'dump' maar ek dra hierdie
onderwerp baie naby aan die hart.

Die Uwe,
Mark

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