LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (05) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  19 January 2008 - Volume 05
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (04) [E]

According to H. Beem's "Resten van een taal - woordenboekje van het
Nederlands Jiddisch" (Remains of a language, dictionary of the Dutch-
Yiddish language) both "jofe" and "jofel" are from Hebrew "jafe" =
beautiful, and the latter form got its final -l by analogy of "sjofel"

And what about what I wrote about 'tuttig'?

Rein wrote:

Indeed, in the meantime I found the claim that *jofel* comes from Hebrew in
a couple of other places. One (
http://homepage.mac.com/schuffelen/duhebrew.html) claims that it comes from
Yiddish *jofe* and/or (<) Hebrew *jopheh* 'nice', 'useful' (sic), actually
'beautiful'. So it would be a word related to previously mentioned
*yofi*(both related to "beauty" as a sememe), and an
*-l* would have been added to it, supposedly in Bargoens, apparently not in
Yiddish (or does anyone know better?).

I'm somewhat skeptical about this and am wondering if this isn't just one
person's assumption adopted and perpetuated by others. Or is there is
actual
evidence for this? I find Mark's hunch about "jovial" as the origin much
easier to go swallow.

Any further info, especially evidence, would be welcome.
From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (03) [E]

I always thought Dutch "jofel" was from Yiddish, because of it's
Amsterdam / Bargoens origin. So "jovial" would have nothing to do with it
then.

In colloquial Dutch "tuttig" is a very common adjective, meaning niminy
piminy, old fashioned, conservative, coy, conventional, bourgeois, naive,
simple minded, childish (mostly of women) etc. Seems to be the same word
as German LS  "tutig"

Ingmar

----------

From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (04) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology

[...]
> I have no idea about the origin of this word. Does
> anyone else?
> Theoretically, the root ought to be **tuut*, but
> these days there's only *
> Tuut* 'toot', 'horn' (for blowing on), and in
> Eastern Friesland dialects
> the diminutive *Tutje* 'kiss'.
[...]

Hi,

Nobody has any idea, I think,
But let's assume that 'tuttig' is to combine with
'optutten' [about:  to dress up], and then we think on
'painting the mouth', and for some time ago this was
done on rare occasions, and then mostly the young lady
was [pretending] to behave shyly. [eeeeh... I would be
when I had lipstick on my mouth.]
And so we have 'tut / toet / tuut' with the meaning of
'mouth', and there you go: the link with Oldgermanic.

I would like to know the first written attest of
'optutten'.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks a lot, Ingmar and Theo.

As for *jofel*, I assume it's all a guessing game when it comes to jargons
like Dutch Bargoens and German Rotwelsch, and unprinted ones are just as
good as printed ones as far as I am concerned.

Theo:

And so we have 'tut / toet / tuut' with the meaning of 'mouth', and there
you go: the link with Oldgermanic.

"Mouth"?! How so?

Please consider Germanic **tut-* 'teat' -- *> **tut(t)-ig ~
***tüt(t)-ig**"infantile".

(In Low Saxon, unlike in German and English, (**tut-* >) *tit* (*Titt*) is
usually not considered rude, not even when it refers to a woman's breast;
hence acceptable derivations such as *Titt(en)kind* 'infant', *Tittmelk*
'breast milk', *Tittbuddel* 'baby bottle', and *Tittwark* 'large udder',
'large set of breasts'.)

And then there are in Low Saxon as in Northern German the iterative- ~
frequentive- ~ habitual-form verbs *tütel-* ~ *tüter-* (1) 'to tie', 'to
wind (yarn, string, rope, etc.)', (2) 'to work slowly and in a complicated
way', (3) 'to lie', 'to fib', 'to concoct a story' (cf. English "to spin a
yarn"). The root must be **tüt-* or **tut*- which by itself does not seem to
be extant.

I kind of like the "infantile" theory above.

As for Dutch *sjofel* 'low(ly)', 'mean', it has the Low Saxon and German
cognates *schofel* 'lowly', 'inferior', 'shabby', 'common', 'mean', 'rude',
etc. In Yiddish it's שפֿל *shofl* 'low(ly)', 'ignoble', etc., from Hebrew שפל
*šâphâl* 'id.'

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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