LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.09 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2008 - Volume 02
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From: KarlRein at aol.com
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.08 (07) [E]

About all this discussion of a singular pronoun of undetermined sex, I am of
the
age from when  "he" was the required word according to school, and we
thought anyone
who said "they" etc. as in "Everybody must put down their pencils" evoked
a tsk tsk from those of us who "knew better."

But my wonderful college freshman English professor came up with evidence of
the
ridiculousness of following rules thoughtlessly: "He tells everyone he is
crazy," because
"everyone" must be referred to as "he" no matter what.

I would say that "I saw a person and they... (if er uh their sex is unknown)
IS the right
option.  Sixty years ago I would have of course agreed with Ivison.

Karl Reinhardt

 In a message dated 7/8/2008 6:35:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM writes:

Saying that All students brought their books" is even better for those
avoiding sexism.
So, I saw a person and they... is common but not the right option.

 Ívison dos Passos Martins.

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.08 (05) [E]

> From: Marsha Wilson <marshatrue at mtangel.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.08 (03) [E]
>
>  In the U.S., many of us would say, incorrectly,
> "they" ran down the
> street.  More properly it would be "He or she"
> ran down the street.
> Marsha Wilson
> in sunny Oregon

Hello Marsha, and many others,

I understand that this casus is still scoring.

We -scholars- have to solve this problem.

And than we use the Greatest Common Divider:
which letters do 'she' and 'he' have in common?
The letters  'e' and 'h'.
'He' it will be.

vr. gr.
Theo Homan

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.08 (05) [E]

Dear Lowlanners,

thanks a lot to all your friendly answers regarding the gender of the
English word _person_.

Kevin took up my whole sentence and wrote:

> "I saw a tall *person* with a black hat and a grey coat. They ran down the
street to the left side."

And let me pick up the comment of Arthur (F.-B.):

> In these situations, a common get-out in English is to say "they", even if
there's only one of > them, since plurals have no gender. "They ran down the
street etc." Looked at logically, it
> sounds a bit odd, I know, but it sounds quite normal in everyday speech.

Arthurs point out is representative for all of you: you don't really
feel comfortable with it, but it's in everyday use.

Well- I've never heard about this construction before, and never would have
believed that it is semi-legal, but it could bring some additional light
upon my comprehension of English in context with the Lowlandic languages.
It's just one of the results of different development.

I'll never again blame a German child just having started to learn English
when it gets confused with the difference of 'she' and 'they'... ;-) In
German as well as in LS the verb *always* shows you if you mean singular or
plural.

English isn't at all a language easy to rule- sometimes too similar to
German, sometimes too far from it! Would be interesting, Ingmar, how Dutch
pupils get around with this problem.

Allerbest!
Jonny Meibohm

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.08 (05) [E]

Beste Reinhard,

thanks for your answer and explanation of a demonstrative pronoun!

You wrote:

This kind of German *das* or Low Saxon *dat*, just like the English
equivalent *that* in such constructions, is a demonstrative pronoun that,
less "demonstratively," can be substituted with *es* and *it* in German and
English. (It remains *dat* in Low Saxon dialects that have lost *es* or *it*.)
"Overuse" of this *das* is typically North German, owing to a Low Saxon
substratum.

This *das* / *dat* / *that* does not modify the noun. It *refers* to it,
basically means "that which you see there is ..." or "what you have there is
..." or something like that.

*Das* scheint *'ne* ganz patente Person zu sein!

See? You're using *'ne* for "a", which is feminine.

*That* seems to be *a* pretty smart person.
..........

*Person* ~ *persoon* is feminine. So there! ;-)

Yes, master, Sir!

Have I confused you more than you need to be?

No, master, Sir! I remember my teacher in German grammar *not* having had
the same patience with me, about 45 years ago ;-)!

Kumpelmenten!

Jonny Meibohm
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