LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

=======================================================================

 L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226

 http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.php

 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org - lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net

 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html

 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html

 Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]

 Administration: lowlands.list at gmail.com or sassisch at yahoo.com


 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
 sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.


 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)

=======================================================================

 ========================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 02 June 2008 - Volume 08
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.
 ========================================================================

From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (03) [E]

 Beste Doug, dear Lowlanners,

Doug schreyv, answering to

*"vynde boddeme maket vynde gut unde vynde gut maket vynde boddeme"*

the aphorism might mean something like "Bad ship, bad cargo; bad cargo, bad
ship" or so, where "bad" could be either "evil" or "enemy". Exact
application not obvious to me.
This is, for my guess, one very interesting interpretation of the
conundrum!!! (Sorry- trying to open your link I just found a lot of
possibilities to get furtheron...)

Thanks, nevertheless, to all the other guesses, dear people!

Hope we're going on.

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

----------

From: Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net>
Subject: LL-L "What does it mean?" 2008.06.02 (03) [E]

*"vynde boddeme maket vynde gut unde vynde gut maket vynde boddeme"*
*vynde:*   *1. winds*
*         2. enemies*
**
*boddeme:* *1. the bottom(s) of a of ship*
                     *2.    (a) special type of ship(s)*
*                      3. (a) shallow part(s) of the sea, near the coast, in
special used in the Baltic Sea*
**
*maket:**   make (3rd pers. sing/pl)*
**
*gut:**     good*
**
*unde:*    *and*

Who is able to solve this conundrum?

 Probably not I, since I am ignorant of Low Saxon.
>
> Here is the aphorism with some context which is not fully legible to me.
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=lPsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22vynde+boddeme%22&lr=&as_brr=0<
> http://books.google.com/books?id=lPsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22vynde+boddeme%22&lr=&as_brr=0
> >
>
> I would guess:
>
> "vynde" = "enemy" (or "devil") (cf. German "Feind")
>
> "boddeme" = "[cargo] ship" (cf. English "bottom" = "[cargo] ship")
>
> "gut" = "cargo" (cf. English "goods", German "Gueter")
>
> Then the aphorism might mean something like "Bad ship, bad cargo; bad
> cargo, bad ship" or so, where "bad" could be either "evil" or "enemy". Exact
> application not obvious to me.
>
> Just a guess.
>

But it's looking like a good guess after all. Compare this, from Thomas
Jefferson (1793):

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7yp1S0B9lgC&pg=PA282&dq=%22enemy+bottoms%22&lr=&num=100&as_brr=0

<<On the contrary, we suppose it to have been long an established principle
of the law of nations, that the goods of a friend are free in an enemy's
vessel, and an enemy's goods lawful prize in the vessel of a friend. The
inconvenience of this principle, which subjects merchant vessels to be
stopped at sea, searched, ransacked, led out of their course, has induced
several nations latterly to stipulate against - it by treaty, and to
substitute another in its stead, that _free bottoms shall make free goods,
and enemy bottoms enemy goods,_ a rule equal to the other in point of loss
and gain, but less oppressive to commerce.>>

There are numerous parallel examples (Google "enemy bottoms" for example), I
guess mostly in the literature of international/maritime law.

-- Doug Wilson

•

==============================END===================================

 * Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.

 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.

 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.

 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")

   are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at

   http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20080602/77c88a6b/attachment.htm>