LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.13 (03) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 13 June 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.12 (08) [E]

This Middle English [æ:] (SAMPA [{:] ) looks like an early phase in the
process from [a:] to [e:]. In the Netherlands, we see the same in several
dialects:

Standard Dutch:
maken [a:]  to make

Different Zeeland dialects:
from maeken [{:] through maeken [E:], to meken [e:]
But Zeeland Flemish has maoken [O:] like the rest of West Flemish

Stellingwerven Low Saxon (S.E. Friesland, West Drenthe, N.W. Overyssel):
maeken [E:]

Probably Dutch had two different sounds for what is long a [a:] today in
words like maken, water vs slapen, jaar, as many dialects still have.

In the Low Saxon speaking Eastern and Northern Netherlands:

dark ao [O:] in slapen, jaar => slaopen [slO:p-m], jaor [jO:@]
aa [A:] in maken, water      => maken [mA:k-N], water [PA:t-r]

the latter aa is pronounced 'lighter', more palatal than Dutch aa [a:].

In North Holland dialects, also called West Fries, but being Dutch:

ee [e:], [eI] or ei [EI] in jeer, sleipe
aa [a:] or [Q:] in maken, water

the latter aa is often pronounced somewhat 'darker' than Dutch aa.

Historically, both A sounds were different:
aa in slapen, gaan, staan, daar etc was already a long vowel, whereas
a in water, maken is a short that was lengthned in open syllables.

So that's for the dialects.
An interesting feature in modern times is the prono of Dutch long A in
different regions.

In Amsterdam, aa tends to be pronounced dark [Q:], similar to Afrikaans.
This happens in more towns in the area, and in all communities there:
Dutch, Black, Muslim, Asian etc.

In Groningen, speakers tend to pronounce every Dutch long aa palatally as
ae [{:]. This is interesting because in Groningen Low Saxon, both A sounds
are pronounced very dark as oa [o:]. In their dialects it is goan, woater
etc., but when speaking Standard Dutch it's gaen, waeter etc.!

At the opposite side of the country, e.g. in the Brabant city of Tilburg,
this ae for Dutch aa is also spreading rapidly. In the Brabant dialects,
Dutch aa is usually ao [O:].

Palatal ae has always seen as an Ingvaeonic or North Sea Germanic feature.

Ingmar

From: Travis Bemann <tabemann at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.12 (02) [E

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> So I believe the name Shakespeare was pronounced [ˈʃæːkspeːɹ] at the time
> (cf. modern [ˈʃɛɪkspɪɹ], [ˈʃɛɪkspiɝ], [ˈʃeɪkspɪə], [ˈʃæɪkspɪə], etc.).
>
> Many Canadian speakers have monophthong [eː] as an equivalent of the said
> sound (thus saying [ˈʃeːkspɪɹ], I guess). On the US side, too, many
speakers
> [eː] or [ɛː] in names like "Australia".

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.12 (08) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

So I believe the name Shakespeare was pronounced [ˈʃæːkspeːɹ] at the time
(cf. modern [ˈʃɛɪkspɪɹ], [ˈʃɛɪkspiɝ], [ˈʃeɪkspɪə], [ˈʃæɪkspɪə], etc.).

I suspect it still had its terminal "r", rather like Americans say it. They
still pronounce it through much of Southwest England, and they were doing so
in Kent and Sussex into the 20th C.

In the 1998 film "Shakespeare in Love" the American cast members (e.g.
Gwyneth Paltrow, Ben Afleck) spoke with very convincing modern English
accents; it would have been more authentic if the British and others had
used American accents!

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Thanks, guys!

Ingmar, have you ever researched if there are any early differentiations
between what in modern varieties is the separation of [a:] and [ɒ:]? It
might be worth our while to look at ancient forms in comparison with a short
list of examples.

Paul, it's great to "see" you again.

I suspect it still had its terminal "r", rather like Americans say it.

Yes, everyone seems to agree that rhoticism was the norm in the happening
places of Southern England in Shakespeare's time. Actually, when you take
all of the safe reconstructed features together (including the
characteristic [əɪ]* for what is now [aɪ] as in "I" and "eye") you end up
with something less sounding like American English, a bit more like Irish
English, and very much like old-time Southwest English dialects on which
"pirate talk" is based. ("Aye, me hearrties!") I don't know how that would
have gone over had it been used in the movie. (Imagine Gwyneth Paltrow
talking "like a pirate"!)  I believe these are the old-time English dialects
of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, western Wiltshire and southern Gloucestershire
(Bristol). Right? These could simply be more conservative.

(* This [əɪ] sound -- mid-shift between old [i:] and modern [aɪ] -- also
survived in many Scots and Scottish English varieties.)

I am in the middle of tweaking some phonetic detail of my Early Modern
English Wren translation. It should be up soon. Is anyone game to make a
recording? If not, I might end up taking a stab at it myself, or even in
addition. The more the merrier.

They still pronounce it through much of Southwest England, and they were
doing so in Kent and Sussex into the 20th C.

This is interesting with respect to Old Saxon, since we are talking about
one of England's "hard-core" Saxon areas. Non-rhoticism as in Southeastern
England, in Australia, in New Zealand and so forth is pretty much identical
with that of Northern Low Saxon.* However, perhaps they developed
independently from each other then. I had always wondered if the "seeds" of
it had crossed over to England with early Saxon colonization.

(* Non-rhoticism and voiceless stop aspiration are two important
phonological features Southern English dialects share with the Northern Low
Saxon heartland dialects, as opposed to rhoticism and non-aspiration in Low
Franconian, or rather Franconian in general.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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