LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.19 (03) [E]

Wed Mar 19 18:46:22 UTC 2008

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L O W L A N D S - L - 19 March 2008 - Volume 03
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From: orville crane <manbythewater at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.19 (02) [D/E/LS]

Hey guys,
  The man by the water, a lowlander by birth, speaks English and lives in
America. He sees that his native tongue just didn't spring from nowhere, but
that it has a rich and interesting history. He finds that there are other
people in this big world of ours that speak related languages, some that are
closely related to his. The Lowlanders speak those closely related
languages; English, Frisian, Dutch and Afrikaans, and Plattdeutsch. From the
seashore, by the water, he looks up to the higher elevations and finds the
German and the Yiddish speakers, some of whom live by the the seashore now.
Then he sees the Scandinavians nearby and he sees their commonality with the
Lowlanders. Those northern people can say the Lowlandic (I just coined a
word, I think.); (p)pound, (p)pipe, (t)tooth and (d)depth.
  We are a product of our past. Let us walk together to a sunny and just
future, with liberty and justice for all.
Tom
man by the water

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.19 (02) [D/E/LS]

Here in the Netherlands, we do have quite a lot of "mass culture" in Low
Saxon, such as several nationally popular pop/rock groups, but there is
also the so called regional soap  http://www.rtvoost.nl/Programma/?id=129

Maybe we have the benefit of having a good example of the Frisian language
in the Netherlands, which has its own broadcasting Omrop Fryslân for many
years, such as School TV in Frisian on national TV etc, and also soap
series and movies in Frisian.

Ingmar

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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.19 (01) [E/LS]

From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de <mailto:uwoltmann at gmx.de>>
>
> There are some people very busy with translations into Low Saxon for
> mass purposes, for example Hartmut Cyriacks and Peter Nissen. They
> translated 'Harry Potter' into Low Saxon. Together with Reinhard Goltz
> they translated 'Asterix'. They are also involved in translating the
> daily news into Low Saxon, Hartmut Cyriacks and Peter Nissen for NDR
> 90,3 and Reinhard Goltz for Radio Bremen.
> http://www.ndr903.de/programm/platt/norichten/
> http://www.radiobremen.de/bremeneins/platt/news/
> Many thanks to them and all the other people who vitalise our domestic
> language Low Saxon.
They do very good work. Although the news sometimes sound a bit
deconstructed. I guess it is hard, to create a good text when you are
under pressure of time, like with the news.
From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de <mailto:marless at gmx.de>>
> Leve Marcus,
>
> Du hest Recht mit Din Menen vunwegen dat Platt "fun" warrn schull. Dat
> is dat "Image" vun Platt, 'neem dat mankeert. Leider is dat Image vun
> Platt vundaag gor nich Shakespeare & Co., sünnern jümmers noch
> Betulichkeit, schenkelpatschen "Humor" (d.h. biedere Zoten) un
> Höögliches ut verleden Tieden.
Nu snack nich gegen dat Laientheater un de Döntjesböker gegenan ;-)
Döntjes sünd Deel vun uns Kultur (wenn mien Opa ut siene Jungstiet
vertellt, do geev dat noch en Döntjekultur, fröher weer dat ganze Dörp
blot Originale, geev överall to Geschichten, geev ja man ok noch keen
Kiekschapp, Döntjes weren de Popkultur vun de Tiet as dat noch keen
Massenmedien geev) un dat Laientheater is ganz wichtig, dat de Lüüd nich
vergeten doot, dat Plattdüütsch noch dor is. Wenn wi dat weggeevt, denn
geevt wi den "fun" vör de öllern Lüüd weg. Dat is ja keen slechten Humor
(gifft ok Dummtüüch, aver jüstso allerbeste Döntjes), he drippt blot
nich den Gesmack vun de jungen Lüüd. Wi mööt allens beids hebben.
Dat gifft twee Typen vun Plattdüütsche: De normalen Lüüd. De blievt bi
dat, wat se kennt. Theater, Döntjes etc. Un denn de, de ok mal wat Neet
utprobeert: Computerlehrgang, Shakespeare etc. Mit Shakespeare, Haikus
un Wikipedia heff ik dissen tweten Deel meent. De gifft sik bitieden wat
to "intelllektuell". Mutt dichter an de Lüüd ran. Döntjes is dichter an
de Lüüd ran. Aver Döntjes gifft dat noog un dorvun bruukt wi mehr junge
Popkultur.
> Dat Argument "junge Lü hebbt keen Lust, noch en Spraak to lehren, de
> Leistungsdruck is al to groot, un vun Plattdüütsch hebbt se doch nix"
> döcht gor nix, denn sünnerlich junge Lü doot allens Möögliche, 'neem
> se nix vun hebbt, ok narrsches un unnüttes Tüüch, wenn dat bloots
> "fun" orr "cool" is -- to'n Bispill sik Metall in't Lief piercen to
> laten etc. To'n Glück bün ik sülven ut dat snaaksche Öller rut un weer
> ok as Jungdeern teemlich nüchtern :-)) Man liekers heff ik mal mit en
> poor Frünnen versöcht, en Plaan to maken för en nieges Image vun Platt
> un woans een dat dörsetten kunn -- "branding" hebbt wi dat nöömt, ganz
> op Germish. Is al poor Johr her. Vun Ümsetten kann keen Reed nich
> ween, för sowat brukst Profis, Geld un bekannte Persöönlichkeiten. Un
> dat is allens ok vigeliensch -- kannst op en Spraak so eenfach en Logo
> setten, en Spraak, de (noch) vun mennig Lü snackt warrt...? Man en
> Logo orr Symbool schull dat woll geven för Platt. De Freesen hebbt ehr
> Seerosenblatt... veel maakt se da ok nich vun!
>
> Man een Saak hest vergeten, meen ik, in Din Optelln vun Simpsons un
> Saken, de een "plätten" schull: Saken, de eenfach nütt sünd. Wenn dat
> wat, wat een *brukt*, bloots op Platt geev, orr op Platt gratis un op
> Hoochdüütsch kostenplichtig -- dat weer ok en Stimulus för de Massen!
> Bi Plattpartu.de <http://plattpartu.de/> <http://plattpartu.de/> heff ik
> Computerlehrünnerlagen to Mainstream-Programme in Platt bröcht, för de
> een annerwegens Geld betahlen mutt, de dat hier avers ümsüss gifft.
De Idee is good. Dat Problem is vör allen: Wenn du würllich en Lück
funnen hest, denn köönt de Hoochdüütschen de veel to gau dichtmaken. De
hebbt hunnertmal de Ressourcen. Ik kenn dat vun de plattdüütsche
Wikipedia. Wi schrievt veel Artikels to plattdüütsche Schrievers. Un
liekers hett de hoochdüütsche Wikipedia meist jüst so veel Artikel to
plattdüütsche Schrievers as wi. Dat gifft nüms op de hoochdüütsche
Wikipedia, de sik bewusst üm dat Schrieven vun Artikels to plattdüütsche
Schrievers kümmert, aver bi 500 ne'e Artikels jeden Dag is dor jümmer
wedder mal een bi. Un dat bringt jüst so veel as dat bewusste Schrieven
vun de Handvull Lüüd op de plattdüütsche Wikipedia.

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>>
> I like Marcus' idea about a popular comic series. But I would prefer
> one that is original and unique rather than rehashed from another
> language version.
Even better. But it has to be really brilliant. Cause it is much easier
to spread from the US to the world than to evolve from a minority
language to the world. Cause most stuff is spread by marketing. Only the
brilliant stuff spreads by itself. Many very good musicians, bands etc.
have made music for years until they were "discovered" and started a
rapid career. Did those musicians make bad music before they were
discovered? No, but being good is not enough. If the product already has
a good reputation it's easier. Therefore I focus on translation. But an
unique work has the advantage that there is no danger of comparison
("the Low Saxon translation is lame and doesn't reach the original").
>
> P.S.: Interesting you'd mention /Loituma Girl/, Marcus. It's based on
> one of my favorite Finnish songs, this one in the Savo dialect, as you
> said. The words were added to a traditional polka tune in the 1930s,
> and this version became immensely popular. What I particularly like
> about it is that it shows off one of the special feature of Finnish:
> the rhythm created by short and long vowels and consonants. The lyrics
> of the song, /Ievan polkka/ (Standard /Eevan polkka/, Eve's Polka),
> and an English translation are at the bottom of the following page:
> http://www.noside.com/nsd6010note.html
> There's a video of a brilliant /a capella/ performance of the song (in
> which the male voice seems to play the tuba and one of the female
> voices a violin or accordion): http://www.city.fi/antitv/klippi/1748/
>
Thanks for the link to the video. I have to say, the four singers have
some charisma or vibes and would be as good as the anime girl for an
internet meme. Perhaps if they twisted a leek ;-)

Marcus Buck

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Below are links to videos about minority language maintenance. They are of
general interest with Lowlandic applicability:

   - SAAMI

   - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkG7psgdl1o&feature=related
   (Deals with reasons for people not passing down their minority
   languages)

   - Background:

   - English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyspUNQ-l70&feature=related
   - English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN-Guz5Zlg4&feature=related
   - Saami: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7QkWCcJFU&feature=related

   - EUROPEAN MINORITY LANGUAGES
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PkSsrB9ftw

   - WHEN LANGUAGES DIE
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmLYo8zQOVs

Marcus:
Thanks for the link to the video. I have to say, the four singers have some
charisma or vibes ...

A couple of LL-Lers wrote to me off-line saying that they enjoyed that clip.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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