LL-L "Grammar" 2008.03.30 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 31 March 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.03.30 (07) [E]

From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.03.30 (03) [E]

Were you thinking of Chesterton:

Before the Roman came to Rye
And out to Severn strode,
The rolling English drunkard made
The rolling English road.

it ends
'For there is good news yet to hear
And fine things to be seen
Before we get to paradise
By way of Kensal Green'.

The whole poem is probably incomprehensible without footnotes.  Kensal
Green, for example, is a large cemetery.

Best wishes to all,

Pat
--
Pat Reynolds

It may look messy now ...
        ... but just you come back in 500 years time (T. Pratchett).

*
But he never explains how this English Drunkard managed to build a road in a
place 500 years before he got there......the English arrived after the
Romans!

Paul

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.03.30 (03) [E]

 Dear Heather,

thanks for your kind answer here:

> OF cows, dear Jonny!  Not BY cows!!!!!
I must admit that the English prepositions 'of', 'by' and 'from' have always
been- and still are- a banana skin for me.
Beg your pardon for having offended your cows ;-)!

> Who was it who said in a poem something about "the rolling English cattle
made the rolling
> English roads"
This reminds me at my early days, when great areas of our region still had
been outside the dikes, called LS 'Butendiek', G 'Außendeich'. Huge meadows,
just qualified to be grazed by the cattle. Caused by the natural and often
changing pathway of the water within the LS/G 'Priel(en)' (E: 'tideways')
there was no straight way anywhere, no tree, no obvious landmark which could
help to orientate oneself.
So, when we used to come back from fishing or hunting in darkness or foggy
weather we had to look for the pathes of the cattle, called LS 'Ossen-Patt'
('ox-path'). They always led us safely back to the dike. (Well- NEARLY
always! One time I remember it was too foggy to recognize the 'Ossen-Patt',
so my experienced dog had to lead me, and one time I chose the wrong
direction, right to the sea. It became a long night, then ;-)!)

Best wishes

Jonny Meibohm

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.03.29 (02) [E]

Beste Ron,

you wrote in our '...have went...'-discussion:

>  I have always just written (or wrote) it down to them not having studied
their conjugation tables properly. Could it be as simple as that?
I fear you're absolutely right, here! Watching the education of my youngest
son regarding English I see a general lack of systematics. In my time we had
to learn, to repeat and to learn again the irregular verbs with all their
flections 'bis sie uns zum Halse heraushingen' (literally: 'until they hung
out of our throats')!

> My theory is that German, and also Dutch, can't go through such a change
because of the use of mandatory *ge-* in the perfective participial
> forms, which English discarded a long time ago. But then again, many
Northern Low Saxon varieties of Germany have discarded it as well
 > (e.g. *ik ga - ik güng - ik bün~hev gaan*). In this case it may be mental
reference to German that prevents such a shift.
Interesting! So- versus - it might have been easier for me to learn the
irregular English verbs because I had learned Low Saxon *before* I came into
contact with English?!
(BTW: In general it always had been easier for a German from Northern
Germany to learn English than for a Southerner, regarding syntax and
pronunciation in special.)

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm
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