LL-L "Etymology" 2008.11.22 (01) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 22 November 2008 - Volume 01
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Ron,



You wrote:



I can't help wondering if the word /Quiddje/ (/kwidje ~ kwitje/) is of Dutch
origin like other Low Saxon words of Northern Germany that end with
diminuitve –/je/ (such as /Buttje/, /Bontje/ and /Mattjes/). And here comes
my own hypothesis that /Quiddje/ (/kwidje ~ kwitje/) came from Dutch /kwijt/
(dialectal and Western Low Saxon /kwiet/) in the sense of 'unable to
function' and 'helpless'. Doesn't this make sense? I think I'll add it to
the Wikipedia article with reference to this posting in our archive.

We have the expression "een rare kwiet" in Dutch, said of "a weird guy".
Dictionary Vandale relates it to "kwibus" (a fool), going back to 1662, <
Latin "quibus", 6de naamval van quis (welke) en dan schertsend losgemaakt
uit een Latijns zinsverband in Kerklatijn of studententaal. "kwiet/kwid" ~
Latin "quid", sounds plausible to me.



Or maybe the word is cognate with English "quid", slang for "one pound".
Here "quid" also ~ to Latin "quid", but in the sense "that what is
essential, the nature of something". In the past, people could be labelled
after a coin, my last name is such an example.



Kind greetings,



Luc Hellinckx


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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.11.21 (03) [E/LS]

Hoi Marcus & Reindert,

Markus, jij schreef dat in het Nederlands "kwytje" niet bestaat, maar dat
is niet helemaal waar. We kennen wel de uitdrukking "kwijtje spelen" i.e.
spelen dat je kwijt bent. "Kwijt" betekent "verloren", "weggeraakt",
dus "kwijtje spelen" is "doen alsof je kwijt/verloren/weg bent".

In het Zeeuws, en vroeger ook in het Hollands, is de vorm "kwietje"
(met korte ie) of "kwitje" de juiste equivalent van NL "kwijtje".

Kwietje en vooral kwitje zijn qua uitspraak vrijwel identiek aan "Quiddje".

En is een "Quiddje" wellicht iemand die zich verloren voelt (de weg kwijt
is), omdat hij als niet-Noord-Duitser/niet-Nedersaks/niet-Hamburger de
plaatselijke zeden en taal niet goed begrijpt?

Met vriendelijke groet
Ingmar Roerdinkholder

From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.11.21 (02) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>>
Subject: Etymology

A /Quiddje/ (~ /Quittje /~ /Quietje/) is someone who is not originally from
Northern Germany, usually specifically from Hamburg or from the coast, is
not very familiar with local culture and does not know Low Saxon or
Missingsch. It is also used to refer to a newbie or greenhorn among ships'
crews, someone that doesn't yet know the routines and doesn't have all the
necessary skills.

According to the German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiddje),
the origin of the word is obscure. Some believe it comes from French
/quitté/ used in connection with merchants' passes at (Hamburg's) city
gates.

I can't help wondering if the word /Quiddje/ (/kwidje ~ kwitje/) is of
Dutch
origin like other Low Saxon words of Northern Germany that end with
diminuitve "/je/ (such as /Buttje/, /Bontje/ and /Mattjes/). And here
comes
my own hypothesis that /Quiddje/ (/kwidje ~ kwitje/) came from
Dutch /kwijt/
(dialectal and Western Low Saxon /kwiet/) in the sense of 'unable to
function' and 'helpless'. Doesn't this make sense? I think I'll add it to
the Wikipedia article with reference to this posting in our archive.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

Dat is egentlich gegen de Wikipedia-Regeln: <
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Keine_Theoriefindung

>. De Theorie is ok nich besünners wohrschienlich, denn twischen /"kwijt"
/un "/Quiddje"/ fehlt de Form /"kwijtje"/, de dat op Nedderlandsch nich
gifft.

Marcus Buck


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, guys! Fancy our Ingster coming out of the woodwork!

Thanks for confirming that *kwijtje* and *kwietje* are in fact used, Ingmar.
This is another case to show that one should not make up one's mind on the
basis of dictionaries alone.

I have no problem with the semantic shift from "lost" to that of
*Quiddje*(which, as I mentioned previously, also occurs as
*Quietje*, probably the older form). A newly arrived stranger is "lost"
after all. He or she can't function well in strange surrounding, in a
strange culture with a strange language.

Northern Low Saxon has *quit(t)* (*kwit*) and *quiet* (*kwyt*) as well,
pretty much in the same sense as the Dutch equivalents. *Quitt sien* means
'be freed of all obligations associated with the conclusion of an
interaction'.

I listed the following likely Dutch loanwords in Northern Low Saxon of
Germany:

*Buttje* 'little boy'
*Bontje* (< French *bon* 'good') 'piece of candy' ("goody")
*Matjes* (type of soused herring, see
http://lowlands-l.net/travels/taste-fish.php)

I should have mentioned the following adverb:

*suutje* 'slowly and carefully' or 'gently' from Dutch *zoetjes* (from *zoet
* 'sweet', possible inspired by French *doucement* 'gently' (actually
"sweetly"))

(Low Saxon for 'sweet' is *sööt* (*soyt*) [zœˑɪt] ~ [zɔˑɪt], while Dutch *
zoet* is pronounced [zut].)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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