LL-L "Etymology" 2008.11.25 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

===========================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 25 November 2008 - Volume 07
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.
===========================================


From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Kreimer at jpberlin.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.11.25 (05) [E]

Am 25.11.2008 um 19:35 schrieb Luc Hellinckx:

In Dutch, "raggen" could mean:

   - to run to and fro
   - to rock
   - the f-word...no, it's not "forgiveness"

There's a relatively popular band in the Netherlands called "De Raggende
Manne" for example. Strikes me that a number of musical styles are named
along the pattern r+e/a/o+g/k



Great, Luc,



thanx, that is the information I hoped for: the word "raggen" is still in
use in a LS-related language of today. Of course, in this case it has a
semantic aura of movement, sexual copulation, and music. But the fact that
is is is used in Dutch (and I suppose not only as loan from Modern English)
shows me that it is of old tradition and can be repatriated also to Low
Saxon varieties.



Meanwhile, I found the origin of Modern English "ragged" in Old English



"raggig" [rag-like] - see



http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=rag&searchmode=nl

and this lets me suppose, that it is not only related to Old
Norsk "raggaðr [shaggy]", but that it might be also an Old Saxon word. The
central meaning should be that of describing the surface of things as
"shaggy", in contradiction to "even" or "plain", with pinnacles, spikes,
fractions, vertices.



In active use as transitive verb it means making something to that by
splitting, breaking, discerp, maul,  shredding it. Or intransitive by
bursting or dissociate by use. From that the noun meanings of "the rag".



Moreover, I suppose that the Standard German (and Middle High German) word
"(hervor)ragen" (to protrude, rise, tower) comes from the same source,
though more related to the status of the resulting objects of a
"rag"-process in relation to there environment. (The Duden etymological
dictionary relates it to Old English "ofer-hrægan", but to russian and greek
words for rafters, pinnacles as well.) Might also be, that the sexual dutch
meaning of "raggen, raggende" binds both together ...



Anyway, I have the impression we came to a (at least) germanic ground word
"rag, hræg etc." by searching for the linguistic origins of "ragtime music".



Thankful for all hints and happy Yours,



de raggende

joachim

--

Kreimer-de Fries
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20081125/284b132b/attachment.htm>