LL-L "Etymology" 2009.07.12 (02) [EN-FR-NL]

[Lowlands-L List]

===========================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 12 July 2009 - Volume 02
lowlands at lowlands-l.net - http://lowlands-l.net/
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)
Language Codes: lowlands-l.net/codes.php
===========================================

From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2009.07.09 (01) [DE-EN-NDS]

 For *red cabbage* (rode kool) we used in our West-Limburgish: "*rowd kaboës
*" as vegetable; it is called "*rowdmoeës*" (roodmoes) when prepared.
- On the WNT CD-ROM:
*KABUIS (II), znw. vr. Mnl. cabuus, cabuys. Kabuiskool (zie ald.); fra. chou
cabus....*
In French, as to Littré:
*CABUS (ka-bu), adj. m. Pommé, en parlant du chou. Des choux cabus.
HISTORIQUE..... Ital. cappuccio, chou cabus, proprement capuchon, de cappa,
chape ; de là aussi angl. cabbage, holl. kabuys. Les anciens dictionnaires
ont laitue cabusse ou cabue, ce qui se dit aussi à Genève.
*- As for Moes we find on the WNT CD-ROM:
*MOES (I), znw. onz. Mnl. moes, ags. en osaks. môs, ohd. muos enz.
Waarschijnlijk in verband staande met germ. mati- (got. mats enz.).  ... 1)
Een of ander gerecht, gekookt of gestoofd van fijngehakte groente met
verschillende toevoegsels...*
- We got it generally prepared mixed with little pieces of apple, it was
darky red, not blue, when prepared. It was generally served with fried
sausage and boiled potatos.

For *green cabbage* as vegetable we used the term "*savoi",* since we kept
that variety in the garden:
- On the WNT-CDROM:
*SAVOYEKOOL, znw. Waarschijnlijk ontleend aan hd. Savoyerkohl, naar fr. chou
de Savoye. Als verkorte vorm komt ook voor Savooitje en in Z.-Ndl.
savooi....*
It was generally mixed with small pieces of boiled potato into "*stoemp*"
and served with fried bacon or fried round meat balls (frikadellen). Our
frikadellen were generally prepared from a mixture of meat, egg and ground
rusk, the latter giving them a very tasty darky skin.. One generally added
some mustard by oneself to the dish, as to one's individual preference.

*Small sprouts* were obviously seved as a whole, boiled with some salt and
oil added to the boiling water.
- On the WNT-CDROM:
*SPRUIT, znw. vr. Mnl. sprute, mnd. sprute, eng. sprout... ... 3) Jonge,
roosvormige loot aan den stengel van bepaalde koolsoorten, die in
hoeveelheden de groente spruitjes of Brusselsche spruitjes oplevert*

I'm not aware of us having white cabbage in the garden. "*Zuurmoes*" was
popular but generally bought prepared in tinned cans.

Since we are writing about food, I would like to spend a few words on bread.
Last week Saturday evening, returning from a conference in Wiesbaden, I
tried to find some bread at a motorway shop South of Kerpen. The only bread
they had; were prepacked blocs of thin slices of very dark tight bread,
quote from the package "*Westfälisches Vollkorn-Brot",* "*Roggenvollkornbrot
*".
Actually it seams to me identical to "*Pumpernickel"-*bread.
- On the WNT-CDROM:
*POMPERNIKKEL, znw. m. Uit hd. pumpernickel (naast bompernickel), waarvan
volgens D. Wtb. (VII, 2231) de oudste beteekenissen zijn geweest: klein,
druk kind en ruwe, onbehouwen man. Het eerste lid is waarschijnlijk de stam
van het ww. pumpern, het tweede stellig een verkorte vorm voor Nikolaus. Is
dit juist, dan vergelijke men naar vorm en beteekenis nd. pulter-klaas, in
het Ditmarsche „Name für St. Nikolaus, Schreckgestalt für Kinder” (MENSING
3, 1140; verg. ook SCHÃœTZE 2, 268)...*
Actually it can be found in Belgian warehouses, but is is not that popular
over here.

- I remember in the fifties, underlining improved standard of life, we had
turned to *white bread* (when milk was added, for Sunday-bread, it was
called "*mik*", "*melkmik*"", and with raisins or corinths added
additionally "*kréntemik*", in Brabantish "*kramiek*")

- In the sixties health awareness raised and we turned to slightly colored
bread, we called in West-Limburgish:
"*gezéft browd*" (sifted bread") or also "*grèès browd*" (grey bread).
We I moved more to the west I learned they rather call it "bruin brood"
(brown bread).
On a bilingual bread bag in Brussels I found recently:
in French: "*pain gris*" (grey bread)
in Dutch: "*bruin brood*" (brown bread)
I guess in South Limburgish we rather were familiar with the "patisserie de
Liège" as bakery standard and used the French term translated.
Anyhow the slightly colored bread is nowadays sold in quite some varieties:
boerenbrood, volkorenbrood, meergranenbrood etc etc. etc.

Generally white bread purchased in France becomes die hard after a day.
Take the little *pistolet:* the first day the crust is very crispy, the core
is quite pappy when fresh, and often removed. The French call the soft
core: *mie*:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mie
When not consumed the first day, as well crust as core become die hard.
Baguettes behave similarily.
Also large round breads as e.g. sold in the Carrefour in Lille in France,
tend to become very hard quite rapidly.
An exception I found is the Auchan warehouse in Roncq, close to the Belgian
border, where the freshly baked bread lasts a bit longer, comparable to
Belgian bread.

The French use "(pain de) *mie*" for a prepacked sliced soft white bread
with a soft crust:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_de_mie
I think we all have something similar in our warehouses: the prepacked white
bread that stays eternally fresh (soft) and tastes like cardboard.
(I remember in Beijing this kind of prepacked bread was generally very
yellow)

Littré gives for *mie*:
* ... ÉTYMOLOGIE. Provenç. mica, mia, miga, mitga ; espagn. miga ; du lat. mica
panis, miette de pain, parcelle, pris ensuite pour la partie molle du pain.*
Van Dale Fr-Nl translates:
*... manger la mie et laisser la croüte...:  het kruim eten en de korst
laten liggen..*
A strange expression, since it is just the reverse of what the French
generally do (with fresh bread)
WNT-CDROM gives:
*KRUIM, znw. vr. en onz., mv. -en., Mnl. crume; verg. ags. cruma, meng.
crumme (enz.), neng. crumb; mnd. krome, nnd. kröme; mdd., nhd. (uit 't Mdd.)
krume. Men acht 't woord verwant met lat. grumus, aardhoop, en gr. gruméa,
afval, alban. grime, kruim. ... 2) Het zachte binnenste van brood, in
tegenstelling met de korst*
In my Limburgisk "kruimel", crumb, is called "*breumel*". I can't explain
the *k -> b* mutation.
We have "br" in "*broemel*", for "braambes", blackberry, but I see no
analogy.

Regards,
Roger

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Roger.

I found the *chou cabus* for 'red cabbage' part particularly interesting,
because it looks like the word for 'cabbage' twice.

English "cabbage" comes from Norman, more precisely from Anglo-Norman (a
Britain-specific dialect of Norman that is now extinct, though some phrases
are still used in certain British royal contexts). In Anglo-Norman the word
for 'cabbage' is *caboche*, probably pronounced [kaˈbɔʤ(ə)]. In today's
Norman dialects of Jersey, Guernsey and Sark (recently extinct) it is still
*caboche* and it is written *kaboch* in Sark Norman.

There is more information with other examples here:
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/norman-intro.php

Norman seems to distinguish *caboche* 'round cabbage with broad leaves' from
*chour* (Sark *chu*, cf. French *chou*), "long-leaved or -stalked" types of
cabbage, which I understand as including kale.

As for your aside of *broemel* 'blackberry', it is related to English
"bramble(s)", Low Saxon *Brummelbeer* ~ *Brommelbeer ~ * *Brammelbeer
*'blackberry',
*Brummeldoorn *~ *Brommeldoorn ~ * *Brammeldoorn *'bramble(s)', Missingsch *
Brommelbeere*, Standard German *Brombeere* 'blackberry'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA
(where another heat wave just gave way to summer rain)

•

==============================END===================================

 * Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.

 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.

 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.

 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")

   are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at

   http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20090712/3d16f88b/attachment.htm>