LL-L "History" 2009.11.06 (03) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 06 November 2009- Volume 03
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: History

Hi Heather!

You asked if the "Dutch" Elizabeth I supposedly spoke was what we today call
"Dutch" or was German. It may be difficult to find that out because in her
days the two plus Middle Saxon (all three being written languages as well)
were lumped together as "Dutch." It did not help that Middle Dutch and
Middle Saxon routinely or occasionally referred to themselves as
*duytsch*and such. Here's a note from the
*Oxford English Dictionary*:

 In the 15th and 16th c. ‘Dutch’ was used in England in the general sense in
which we now use ‘German’, and in this sense it included the language and
people of the Netherlands as part of the ‘Low Dutch’ or Low German domain.
After the United Provinces became an independent state, using the
‘Nederduytsch’ or Low German of Holland as the national language, the term
‘Dutch’ was gradually restricted in England to the Netherlanders, as being
the particular division of the ‘Dutch’ or Germans with whom the English came
in contact in the 17th c.; while in Holland itself *duitsch*, and in Germany
*deutsch*, are, in their ordinary use, restricted to the language and
dialects of Germany and of adjacent regions, exclusive of the Netherlands
and Friesland; though in a wider sense ‘deutsch’ includes these also, and
may even be used as widely as ‘Germanic’ or ‘Teutonic’. Thus the English use
of *Dutch* has diverged from the German and Netherlandish use since 1600.


Let me add that the British at that time had contacts not only with the
Netherlands (and also Flanders) but also with Middle Saxon speakers,
especially with merchants of the Hanseatic Trading League that had offices
in several British cities and also had the Steelyard and diplomatic
representation in London. I have a feeling that Middle Dutch and Middle
Saxon were perceived as more or less the same.

>From "An agreement made betweene King Henrie the fourth and the common
societie of the Marchants of the Hans"* referring to the Hanseatic Trading
League:

... and the marchants of the common societie of the Dutch Hans aforesaide
...

... by the whole companie of the common society of the marchants of the
Dutch Hans ...

[* Henry IV (1367–1413)]

By the way, although I quite believe that Elizabeth I was extraordinarily
educated (and extraordinary in other regards as well) I would be surprised
to hear that she was able to carry on real conversations in all of the
languages mentioned. She could have known as little as a few polite phrases
in some of them, just enough to walk from guest to guest saying a few
greetings and asking them how they were doing. That alone would have seemed
quite impressive, would have been fodder for the belief that the Queen was
"fluent" in all those languages. It's still like that these days. Many
people assume you "know" a language if you say a word or phrase in it, and
next thing you know is they tell others that you are "fluent" in it. In the
case of Elizabeth I, genuine admiration and probably also plain sycophancy
may well have fortified this assumption.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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