LL-L "Etymology" 2009.11.29 (02) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 29 November 2009 - Volume 02
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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.11.29 (01) [DE-EN]

from Heather Rendall  heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

Jonny asked: How did the word E 'church' with all its related varieties like
DE 'Kirche', NL 'Kerk', LS 'Kaark'... etc. reach the Germanic languages

Beste Jonny

I seem to recall from my college studies of many years ago that 'betehus'
was an early (germanic) word used by Irish (?) missionaries when first
converting the German tribes. But it did not last long.

Was the influence of Greek versions of the Bible as opposed to Latin
versions responsible for *Greek* *'κυριακον' ?*

*Heather*

*Worcester UK*
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Etymology

Hi, Jonny and the rest of you Lowlander lot of the etymologizing ilk!

Yes, this "church" thing is indeed interesting but perhaps not a total
conundrum. At least let me do a little bit of playing the devil's advocate
with your argument, Jonny.

First, however, let me say that the imported Greek-derived word was truly
foreign to Germanic speakers. This seems to indicate that they did not know
Greek themselves, perhaps also that the word had been passed along via other
languages. I am saying this because West Germanic **kirika* derives from *a
part* of an original noun phrase, which may be assumed to be Greek *κυριακὴ
οἰκία (*kuriakē oikía* "house of the Lord") or *ἐκκλησία κυριακή (*ekklēsia
kuriakē* "congregation of the Lord"). (*Ecclesia* is in fact a Greek loan in
Latin.) Only the κυριακή (*kuriakē * "of the Lord") part survived in *
*kirika*. In other words, κυριακόν (*kuriakón* "the Lord's") is apparently *
not* the origin of Germanic words for "church".

You wrote:

HARPER in contrast clearly means that the Goths brought it with them. But
that would bring up the question, what the pre-christian Germanics should
need such a 'technical term' for?! Besides that the beginning of
Christianity in southern Germania started in the 2nd century AD - that was *
before* the Goths arrived.

"Technical term"?! They weren't all *that* unsophisticated, surely. It was a
new term describing the meeting place or congregation of a hitherto unknown
religion. You can import such a foreign word irrespective of what religion
you yourself follow.

Let's assume that the word did come with Gothic contacts. Would we have to
necessarily assume that this was during or after the fourth century when the
Goths had been become Christians themselves?  In theory, pre-Christian Goths
could have reported to other Germanic speakers about Byzantine churches,
perhaps when trading items they had looted from churches. See, the word for
"church" current among Christian Goths was *aíkklesjō*, clearly derived from
Greek ἐκκλησία(*ekklēsia* < ἐκκαλείη *ekkale**ín* 'to call out')! It was
apparently not **kirika* (or **kirikō*)! What if this latter word does
indeed go back to contacts with pre-Christian Goths that did have contacts
with the Greek-speaking East Roman empire?

What other likely direct or indirect contacts were there between early
Germanic speakers and Greek speakers? The earliest Greek-speaking
communities in Germanic-speaking areas were probably Jews that followed the
Romans. There is no proof of lasting communities, though such communities
may well have merged with later arrivals. Greek was a major language among
Jews already prior to the development of Christianity. It was used besides
native Aramaic and mostly non-native Latin even by many in the Jewish
homeland. Greece's Romaniotes Jews trace their roots back to ancient
diasporas, mostly in Asia Minor (today's Turkey) and Egypt. During the early
part of the first millennium, these were Roman citizens (whose ancestors had
been driven from their homeland) and thus were able to follow Roman power
before and after the adoption of Christianity as the Romans' state religion.
Important Greek-speaking Jewish communities existed in Sicily and on the
southern Italian mainland. These areas belonged to the Greek-speaking East
Roman Empire. It was primarily from this region that Charlemagne and his
descendants recruited Jews, especially merchants and specialist artisans, to
settle in the Rhineland and in the Palatinate because the feudal system left
a wide gap between the ruling class and the peasant class. (This type of
social engineering came to be repeated many times throughout history, such
as in British and Netherlands colonies in which imported Chinese were to
fill the gap, and the social repercussions were similar.) These Jewish
newcomers are the ancestors of the Ashkanazic ("German") Jews, though they
may have merged with Greek-speaking Jewish communities that had arrived with
the Romans earlier. Eventually they adopted the German language of that
region, and Old Yiddish developed from this. Indeed, there are old
Greek-derived words in Yiddish! In the very early days, synagogues and
churches were not perceived as being vastly different, as seen in the Hebrew
terms: בֵּית ×›Ö¼Ö°× Ö¶×¡Ö¶×ª (bÄ“yth k’neseth "house of assembly") for "synagogue",
and ×›Ö¼Ö°× Öµ×¡Ö´×™Ö¼Ö¸×” (k’nÄ“siyyāh) for "church", both containing the root ×›× ×¡
(KNS) which connotes "entering" and "congregating".

But let's assume the word **kirika* did indeed come with Christian Goths.
How would the apparent fact that some southern Germanic communities had
become Christian in the second century - whatever word for "church" they may
have used - have prevented the eventual spread of the term **kirika* and its
derivatives? The Germanic people's were not all that well connected with
each other. In Old German alone several words for "church" (place and/or
community) are known: *brūtsamana*, *brūtsamanunga*, *gimeinida*, *kilihha*,
*kirihha*, *kristānheiti*, *ladunga*, *liutkilihha*, *samanunga*, and *
wīhsamanunga*. (Cf. Old English *cirice*, *gelaþung*, *laþung*.) Old Saxon,
latecomer in the Christian world, has only *kirika*. Had the West Germanic
word **kirika* come to dominate by the time those obstinate Saxons were
finally beaten into becoming Christians? Or was it only the word of choice
among the Franks that had done the beating?

Nice thread, Jonny!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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