LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.02 (03) [DE-EN-NDS]

Mon Aug 2 17:35:00 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 02 August 2010 - Volume 03*
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From: Mike Wintzer <k9mw at yahoo.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.01 (05) [DE-NDS]

Hi Marlou, Ron, hi all,

First a question: Aren't we excluding Lowlanders

from this fascinating discussion by holding it in

German?

I enjoyed reading your very balanced, neutral, high-

level assessment of the situation, Marlou, and your

answer Ron. I might propose a very simple solution

to most of these problems, domination, contamination

(Ron, you know me, I like it simple, simplistic, I confess):

Generalised bi-linguism (eventually world-wide).

The local, home languages for daily life, the world

language when it comes to outside communications.

The home language would be protected without

hampering world-wide communication.

Utopic, yes, but nevertheless worth aiming for?

Kumpelmenten, Mike Wintzer

From: M.-L. Lessing
<marless at gmx.de<http://us.mc570.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=marless@gmx.de>
>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.07.31 (02) [NDS]

Liebe Leute, ich würde gern über diesen Vorstoß "Deutsch ins

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Language politics

You are quite right to say that this thread is important enough to have at
least some English content. For this reason, I’m posting below a rough
translation of my own retort, though it is not as informative as is
Marcus’s, not to mention Marlou’s original discussion.

The whole thing is about Norbert Lammert, a German Christian Democrats
politician, pushing for constitutionally specifying German as the national
language, in addition to it being the administrative language on a national
basis already.

Marlou brought up the “defensive” aspect of constitutionally specifying a
language, namely to defend it from possible encroachment (if I understand
her correctly). In this context she brought up current Anglicization of
German that in some quarters has become extreme. I cannot summarize Marcus’s
response to that, because it is quite extensive and also quite erudite.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

Thanks, Marlou.

Defining a language in the constitution for defensive reasons tends to mean
that you want to protect it from being replaced by another language, in
other words to perpetuate the lead role of the language. This would also
prevent "natural" changes, in theory for example the spreading of the
minority languages and shrinking of the main official language.

You mentioned in this context the "problem" of Anglicisms. The "purity" of
language can not be ensured by the said constitutional amendment. For this,
a separate amendment would be required and would be highly problematic and
in my opinion undemocratic. How do you prevent foreign influences by law?
Establish a German equivalent of the *Académie française* that dictates what
words are allowed or prohibited? Or a counterpart of the Latvian state
authority that prohibits the public display of foreign words? Perhaps some
language police whose plain-clothed officers arrest people on the street if
they use illegal foreign words in private conversations? One of our human
rights would be removed by it.

The United States have no constitutionally defined language. English is only
*de facto* the main language. Theoretically, it could therefore be replaced
as a result of demographic changes, such as by Spanish with its rapidly
increasing number of speakers. Fear of just this has moved some Americans to
call for specification of English in the constitution. Opponents of this
demand assert that this is primarily racially motivated and that such a
language law would create unnatural rigidity.

Regards!
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.01 (06) [DE]

Leve Marcus, leve Lowlanders,

Dat haest du good schreven, so is dat juemmers, dat een wat ik woell un dat
annere wat ik schull.....De annern schuellt sik anpassen awer wenn de
soelvigen luet na Nordfriesland oder de Lausitz kuemmt den is dat alens
vergeten, "wi suend doch in Duetschland" heer heet dat op eenmol...un dat
hebb wi heer in nederland ok, ik muech so gern mhr. Wilders fragen of dat
met de anpassung vun de "Utlaenners' denn ok guelt wenn een Limburger naa
Friesland kuemmt....schall Wilders denn wul frysk lern? Daar dink he doch ni
in droom an.....un so is dat oeverall, of in China, Frankriek, Denmark oder
Duetschland....

Groeten
Helge

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From: Anja Meyfarth <aurinel at spray.se>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.01 (05) [DE-NDS]

Leve Marlou,

ich halte es für sehr wahrscheinlich, daß die Lammertsche Idee Teil des
jährlichen Sommertheaters ist. Nur daß dieses Mal jemand aus der ersten
Reihe was von sich ibt und nicht einer der Hinterbänkler, der sich
profilieren will.
Ich halte die Festschreibung von Deutsch als Staatssprache im Grundgesetz
für völlig überflüssig. Deutsch ist Amtssprache, das kann eine
Grundgesetzänderung nicht noch stärker machen. Und als Instrument der
Sprachpflege ist es meines Erachtens nicht tauglich. Mal ganz abgesehen
davon, daß das Volk das Grundgesetz sowieso nicht kennt. (Wer kennt denn
schon den Artikel 1?)
Ich denke, daß eine plattdeutsche Führerscheinprüfung möglich ist. In
Schleswig-Holstein ist das sicher schwerer durchzusetzen, aber in
Ostfriesland kann ich mir das sehr gut vorstellen. Und natürlich ist sie
gültig, eine Nichtanerkennung wegen der Sprache ist rechtlich nicht
zulässig. Da mußte sogar das Patentamt in München kleinbeigeben, als ein
Patent auf Platt eingereicht wurde.

Gröte ut Kiel,

Anja

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