LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.02 (04) [DE-EN]

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 02 August 2010 - Volume 04*
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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>

Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2010.08.02 (03) [DE-EN-NDS]



Dear Ron, Marcus, Mike, Anja & all,



thank you all for helping me see things more clearly and more diverse at
once! This is just what I love about LL-L :-)



So most of us think this Grundgesetz-thing would be of no use for high
German, and some think it would be of no harm for the minority languages or
for language development as well. But there were arguments that it could,
and many points were interesting to me, especially yours, Ron, that German
could be replaced by a totally different language in the course of social
development. A rigid rule as to the language would be an obstacle then. I
had not been thinking that far into the future. But really, I don't worry so
much about these future times. I suppose if German can be replaced, then the
Grundgesetz can be, too? That new society will make its own Grundgesetz.
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought
for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."
Matthew 6:34  :-))



True: The Grundgesetz is rather a mirror of society than a guideline. Thus
it would not be of much use to help check the Germish infestation. But I
think there is much to the warnings of Marcus an Helge: As soon as a
minority language turns to be a molestation (i.e. a factor of cost), such a
Grundgesetz article may be used against them. Surely the Wilders' of this
world will not learn Frysk. It would be trouble. Nobody wants trouble.



On the whole, I think you pretty got me over to refuse the
Grundgesetz-initiative :-)



Thanks all!



Hartlich



Marlou



P.S. Marcus, you wrote:



"Was erwartest du, sollte sich ändern, wenn man fremdsprachige Prüfungen
abschafft? Wer macht denn solche Prüfungen? Ich würde zwei Gruppen erwarten:
a) frische Neuankommlinge, die noch nicht die Gelegenheit hatten, die
einheimische Sprache zu lernen, b) Hausfrauen, die in ihren Kontakten stets
auf die Familie und Landsleute der alten Heimat beschränkt waren und deshalb
nie veranlasst waren, die einheimische Sprache zu lernen."



This is funny, your ideas seem quite plausible, but I was thinking of *young
men*. They are the most problematic group (in many respects :-)) -- and at
the same time the group where the driving license is most valued. So many
people think the license would be a fine lever arm to bring them to the
books. Some even say a driving license should not be granted without a
Hauptschul graduation. This might rapidly bring down the rate of male school
drop-outs, not only those of migrant roots. -- As to your a), people who
don't know what Einbahnstraße means should really not be granted a driving
license, I think; as to your b) -- these women are the most eager to learn
german and get on. I am working as a computer and math teacher in migrants'
integration and training projects, you know, and have seen many classes of
these gifted and deeply frustrated women, exploding with accumulated
eagerness to learn. No problem *there*!



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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Language politics

Marlou,

Most countries consider their constitutions sacrosanct and make changing
them very difficult. Whatever goes into the constitution is meant to be
lasting, not something that can be changed at the drop of the hat.

Lammert’s amendment proposal is really a proposed *addition*. Once it is in
the constitution it will be very difficult to remove or change it.

Look at the French constitution and its phrase "La langue de la République
est le français". Those in French politics that are opposed to linguistic
diversity in France and thus to the legitimacy of regional and minority
languages (leave alone immigrant languages) keep referring to that phrase.
Of course, the phrase can be interpreted as meaning that French is the
national lingua franca (which would allow recognition of other languages).
But the anti-diversity crowd hangs on to the literal meaning. So you have a
political fight on your hands and that because the language has been
specified in the constitution.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA



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