LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.26 (03) [EN]

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 26 July 2010 - Volume 03
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.25 (03) [EN]



> From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at gmail.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.24 (04) [EN]
>
> Sandy skreev:
>
> To my mind traditional heraldry is just propaganda for the illiterate.
>
> Never forget that these "illiterate" are the masses, and that's what
> you will ultimately have to work with, if you want to give them a
> flag. Us "better informed" can discuss and propose all we want, but if
> the masses don't take it, that flag won't fly.

But you couldn't go wrong. A lion would say strength &c, a cross would
say God's on our side, anything good like that. Nice colours, whatever!

Allegiance is really just imprinting, the way goslings imprint on an
animal psychologist for a mother. Give people something they can look at
and they'll find it very hard to change allegiance.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/



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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>

Subject: LL-L "Vexillology" 2010.07.25 (03) [EN]



Beste Henry:



*Subject:* LL-L "Vexillology"



'Ksien ons is meteens hier, maar verder in Engels.



Henry:

I do see however why some people feel a need for 1 flag for all. So how
about this: we take the age old Saxon symbol of the white horse upon the red
field, but for everybody who wants to be different (like the East Frisians),
they add a little something to it.



Mark:

There is Heraldic precedent for it, & I think it's called a 'difference'.
For flags that could mean 'quartering' a charge. The quarter uppermost
nearest the pole is called the 'Jack' (as in the Union Jack) & reflects
subordinate divisions. In the case of my suggestion I would have the White
Horse on a green field with, differenced for Lubeck or perhaps the whole of
the historic Hansa, a golden astrolabe. Blazoned: Vert a Charger Argent in
quarter Vert an Astrolabe or.



As for the colour of the field, Henry, out of loyalty to my wife's people I
would forswear red. It is historically the livery of Edom, a race inimical
to God's People & avaricious for power (heraldry is an ancient craft). & do
you need red? Out of another loyalty down my own bloodline I moot Orange,
which as far as *we* are concerned is a tincture, not a taint. Only then in
the interests of clarity perhaps the astrolabe should also be silver; not a
bad idea, considerining how much silver navigation brought to the League. So
how about this? Orange overall a Charger in quarter an astrolabe both
Argent. Now I am getting *warm*. Why did I get involved with this?



Henry, I won't take sides in who 'shot first' excepting to expect that the
Christians did, & our lot were heathens at the time. I will only add that I
am relieved that I do not have to be. St. Boniface (was it?) did a good
thing chopping down the dread oak. & I personally know it is not a quiet
business, or quick, to chop down a big tree. They must have connived.


Sandy skreev:

To my mind traditional heraldry is just propaganda for the illiterate.



Mark:

True; & another option is to dump the whole thing, but one cannot compel
everyone else to join one in this. Henry is right. With or without flags the
divergant loyalties of the masses will flourish. Flags & heraldry at least
allow us to see which way the wind is blowing, so to speak. Play along,
always bearing in mind that you are, & that is all you are doing.



Groete,

Mark



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